VW - PERFORMANCE # 1/5
======================
Author: Robert Collins
Some editing: Jan Vandenbrande
These are a series of articles on VW performance by Robbert Collins,
a former Drake employee, so keep that in mind when you
read through the text ;->.
These articles are a couple of years old by now
but none-the-less interesting.
I don't know if Mr. Collins is still on the net.
Jan
===============================================================================
Disclaimer by the editor (& presumably the author):
These articles should be regarded as opinions and not fact.
If any product's name or company is mentioned, no connotation should be
taken for its actual quality, value or use.
There is NO guarantee any of this information is correct.
Neither the authors, editors, or those who maintain these archives take
any responsibility for the consequences that may result from applying
any of the ideas presented within these articles.
Severe damage, injury or loss of life may result from applying the ideas
presented.
Furthermore, before implementing any of the ideas, check whether such
modifications are allowed in your state, province or country.
All articles may be distributed freely and copied (unless otherwise stated)
as long as the original authors or origine are identified if available.
===============================================================================
Article 3522 of rec.autos.tech:
Path: oberon!ll-xn!ames!oliveb!felix!ccicpg!turnkey!conexch!rob
>From: rob@conexch.UUCP (Robert Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: GTI upgrade advice sought
Summary: Good advice is hard to find
Message-ID: <222@conexch.UUCP>
Date: 21 Mar 88 18:48:51 GMT
References: <2341@mhuxt.UUCP>
Reply-To: rob@conexch.UUCP (Robert Collins)
Distribution: na
Organization: The Consultants' Exchange, Orange County, CA. (714) 842-6348
Lines: 60
Boy, am I glad I saw this message. Let me introduce myself: Robert Collins
former sales manager of Drake Engineering & Sales Corp. You may know that
Drake is the premier high performance (and racing) engine builder for over
60 years. They built the famed (26 time Indy winning Offenhauser "OFFY")
racing engine. Furthermore, they developed the supervee motor for VW in
the late '70s. My position at Drake was to deal with the high performance
VW market for street and racing use. So, some experience lends itself to
some advice.
You mentioned R & A Applied Arts. Andy King (owner) does good work, but
what he doesn't tell, is that Drake does all of his cylinder head work
(maybe he does tell). However, Andy specializes in turbo conversions,
and I don't necesarily recomend a turbo conversion. If you do, here
are some things to consider: Your '83 GTI has 8.5:1 compression ratio.
That is barely managable for a turbo. A turbo likes about 7.5:1 c/r.
With 7.5, you can crank the boost, and get much better bottom end torque,
and higher hp on top. But henceforth, I will assume you would like
a naturally aspirated motor.
DON'T (read that again DON'T) get a VW 16v. They are absolutely junk.
If you saw the insides of one, you would puke. It is a dead-player
for high performance. The exhaust valves are top-dead-center over
the combustion chamber, and make a 95 degree bend around to exit the
head. BAD! Furthermore, suppose you buy the motor, you would need
the fuel and spark managemnt systems. The intake and exhaust manifold
from the Scirocco (to fit your cars layout). The distributor. In all,
it would take a couple of thousand dollars (on top of the motor) to make
it all work CORRECTLY. And, like I mentioned, it is a performce DOG.
At 123hp (US spec), it is a weak puke of a motor. I would recommend
putting bigger valves in your current head. And, it is not much of a
supprise, that Drake is the only company I know of that does that. Sure,
many companies make big valve heads, but for the GTI? No. THis is because
big valves for GTI's need to be custom made, and Drake is the only ones
willing to do that.
If you are intent of a 16v, here are some further things to consider:
VW's 16v: 123hp (US), 139 hp (European), 196hp (racing European)
I estimate, $4500 to make it all work.
Oettinger 16v: On a 1600cc motor 135hp, 2liter 170hp, 220hp racing.
I estimate 6500 to make it all work.
Drake 16v: Ah, you didn't know drake made a 16v for the VW did you?
170hp on a 1600cc motor, and no dyno figures for a streetable
2liter motor. But as you can see, the Drake is MUCH more
powerful than Oettinger. And, 290hp (racing 1900cc).
I estimate, 7000 to make it all work.
Summary, 16v conversions cost big bucks. But if you have that kind of
money to burn, the Drake is obviously much more powerful, (even for the
money) than either VW's or Oettingers. THere are reasons for the much
bigger hp figures by the DRake, too numerous to detail in this article,
but let's just say it is a much better cylinder head design.
Finally, naturally aspirated performance on your existing motor. For
a mere $1200 bucks, you can get 130hp from your existing motor. Just
put in a Drake big valve head, and exhaust system. They were dyno tested
at 130hp, and that is without modifying the bottom end. So, you might
conclude that for 1200, you can have 130hp, or for 6500 you can have
140 hp. Is the extra 5000 worth the extra 10hp?
Drake can be reached at (800) DRAKE-GT. Ask for Tim.
I can be reached at (714) 995-7344
Robert Collins.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PART - 1 -
>From: rob@conexch.UUCP (Robert Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: VW High Performance (Microview Part 1)
Keywords: vw,gti,performance,buzz bomb,pocket rocket,shred,kill,eatem alive
Date: 31 Mar 88 20:24:24 GMT
Organization: The Consultants' Exchange, Orange County, CA. (714) 842-6348
DISCLAIMER:
The views in this article are strictly opinions, and some of the
stories could be considered 'seasoned hearsay.' At the very
minimum, they are strictly my opinions, and in no way whatsoever
reflect that of my former employer, or any other parties involved.
Nothing is intended to be slanderous or defamatory, though everything
is based on my own experiences.
In case you missed any of my postings, I will start from scratch,
and try to organize my thoughts on VW high performance. I will
attempt to be complete, covering every modification I know of.
In such a case, this will be a long letter. The conclusions I
make, will be based on:
1) Extensive (motor) dyno testing on a 1000hp Heenan/Frued (sp) dyno.
2) Road testing
3) Concurrence of the industry
4) My personal experiences
I hope to give you a 'behind the scenes' look at aftermarket VW, along
with the 'low down' on who does what.
I will be mentioning companies by name, so if I step on your favorite
companys' toes, please don't be offended. My point is that there will
be a right way, and a wrong way to do things, and I will discuss both
as candidly, and unbiased as I can. I feel that I can do this better
now, than when I worked at Drake, as I have no 'loyalty' to maintain.
I will do this in a few installments:
1) Introduction; the major players involved; ABT; Automotive Performance
APS; Autotech; Drake Performance; GMP; Techtonics.
Horsepower basics.
2) The bottom end: blocks, cranks, pistons; connecting rods;
rod bolts; bearings; dry sump vs. wet sump oil system;
oil coolers; OIL; SYNTHOIL.
3) Cylinder heads in general; cam followers; valve springs; valve keepers;
valve spring retainers; valves; valve guides; valve spring tension;
pc-seals; valve seats; combustion chamber; porting & polishing;
camshaft basics; head alignment dowel pins.
4) Cylinder head specifics (8v); US 1.6L f/i; US 1.6L Carb; Euro 1.6L f/i;
1.8L f/i; 1.8L Carb; Camshafts
5) Cylinder heads (16v); VW 16v; Oettinger 16v; Drake 16v
6) Induction devices; Dual carbs vs. fuel injection.
7) Exhaust systems & catalytic converters; headers; cat conv. test pipes;
Euro manifold & down pipe; exhaust systems.
8) Spark management; vacuum advance; mechanical advance; recurved;
computerized.
9) Turbos & superchargers; Callaway turbos; Autotech supercharger;
GMP supercharger; Drake Turbo.
10) Transmissions; tranny basics; gears available; final drive ratios;
synchros; (A MUST READING)
11) Suspension bushings, sway bars, stress bars
12) Wheels & Tires; what fits & what doesn't.
13) Accessories
14) Anything else I left out
Please don't be offended if you get the attitude I think there is
only one "right" way to build a motor...there is only one right
way. But I will concede, that some ways are adequate for the
job. If I don't make myself clear on a particular subject, don't
hesitate to send me e-mail, or call me up. I will most happily
respond, and give you advice, phone numbers, and addresses when
needed. You might also send me e-mail telling me your opinions
and experiences with various companys' and parts. Don't hesitate
to mail me your criticism as well.
I have been requested by the various company's that before you
deluge them with superfluous calls, you might call me first, and
let me help direct you a little.
Me:
My name is Robert Collins, former sales manager at Drake Engineering
& Sales Corp. My duties at Drake were to sell high performance, and
racing parts for the water-cooled VW's. While there I wrote all their
computer programs for inventory control, and database management.
Furthermore, I wrote programs for analyzing dyno output and choosing
the "best" set of gears for a transmission.
Currently, I work as a computer programmer/consultant/analyst in APL.
I still have all my contacts in the VW business, and keep up to date
on all the latest products. I also have the opportunity to test
various products before they are ever released (or the 1st ones
released) for evaluation and 'stress testing.' I have a motto that
says: "I am the ultimate durability test." I drive my car hard,
everyday; to its outer limits. Even so, my car is extremely
reliable - and so should yours be too.
So without further ado, I will begin with horsepower basics, followed by
the 'players in the market' (in alphabetic order).
Horsepower basics:
It costs money to make power...lots of it. There's a joke in the racing
industry that goes like this:
Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large fortune.
There is one misconception that I must address first (that's why I
am covering hp basics first), and that is most everybody out there
overESTIMATES the horsepower they quote you on the phone. Some
more than others, and some are downright overblown. Below, are some
actual hp figures, and what you would expect to pay for them:
CC's Block HP @ RPM Torq @RPM (C/r) Cost Induction Comment
1600 1.6 121 6500 110 4000 8.5:1 1200 f/i
1850 1.6/1.7 130 6500 120 4500 9.5:1 3000 f/i
1780 1.8 130 6500 121 4500 8.5:1 1200 f/i
1935 1.7/1.8 135 7000 130 4200 9.5:1 4500 f/i Okrasa crank
same motor ------> 110 2000!
2010 1.8 138 7000 135 4500 9.5:1 4500 f/i
1977 1.8 170 7500 150 4600 9.7:1 5000 2 Mikuni 44s
1936 1.8 170 7500 145 5000 10:1 6700 2 Mikuni 44s (Oettinger 16v)
1588 1.6 178 7000 148 4500 9.5:1 6500 2 Mikuni 44s (Drake 16v)
(Compare the above two motors, and tell me which one is better!)
(Hint: look at motor size, then HP, then C/R)
(racing motors below)
1802 1.8 178 8000 160 5000 13:1 6500 1 Weber 48 (8v motor)
1935 1.8 295 9000 180 6500 14:1 10000 Hilborn f/i (Drake 16v)
These are all actual motors I saw dynoed, or had access to dyno charts.
Most important to note is the cost of these motors, not the HP. If
you are quoted HP figures by a company, ask them how much that motor
cost. If the price doesn't match the above pricing schedule, (give or
take a few hundred), then something is amuck. Furthermore, be very
sceptical of company's with no dyno. Ask them how they know how much
HP the motor puts out. And keep in mind that Europeans measure HP
differently than US (DIN vs SAE) and is one source for inflated HP
figures. (Any physics majors out there that can give me formulae
for DIN would be most appreciated).
ABT Motorsport
23854 Via Fabricante #G-1
Mission Viejo, Ca 92691
(714) 859-7773
ABT is a good company with strong German roots. ABT is a famous tuning
firm in der fatherland, and the Mission Viejo outlet is an extension
of that firm. The exact business connection is not known, but more than
likely, the name ABT is the only connection. ABT is run by Mike Hoppen.
Mike's dad is Joseph Hoppen chief of Audi-sport US. Joseph Hoppen was
former head of VW Motorsport US (special vehicles division - now headed
by Mike Kaptuch) until his position was labeled as a conflict of
interest. This all came about in a most curious way, and of course, I
would like to think I had my hand in it as well.
(Seasoned hearsay below.)
Many years ago a major supplier of VW Motorsport products in the US
was Vasek Polack in Redondo Beach, Ca. Karl Thompsen was head of
the performance division there. One day Karl placed an order for
some VWM products, and was told that he could no longer buy them, as
they were no longer being allowed to be imported into the US. But,
however, he could buy them from ABT motorsport in Mission Viejo.
This infuriated Karl, and he got out of the VW business all together.
If by chance you, or I was to call VWoA and inquire about the racing
division (special vehicles division), you would be connected to
Joseph Hoppen, and he would recommend ABT. Does it seem like a
conflict of interest that Joseph recommends his son's company? Not
unless there is something beneath the surface. There was. All
racing parts are channeled through the special vehicles division of
VW. ABT was the only company able to get the VWM racing parts. It
was later discovered that Joseph Hoppen owned ~51% of ABT. Truly
a conflict of interest.
Subsequently, it seems that ABT can no longer get VWM parts!
How's that for justice?
ABT Pros:
Not afraid to sponcer race cars (especially the ones Mike Hoppen drives).
Alot of aesthetic parts. Cheap prices on certain items. Good in-house
service. Lots of European parts.
ABT Cons:
MUCH too expensive on a preponderance of parts. You don't get your
money's worth. Likes to put motors together w/ too much compression
(+10.0:1) and run them on pump gas. Won't buy it unless it comes
from Europe (ergo closed minds). Highly exaggerates HP figures.
ABT best products:
G-cams; throttle bodies; body kits; aesthetic components.
Automotive Performance Systems (APS)
aka Neumann Distributing
aka Neuspeed
1464 N. Hundley St.
Anaheim, Ca 92806
(714) 630-1144
APS is a good, honest company. They provide very high quality parts
at a very (sometimes too) cheap prices. Their Neuspeed line of
sway bars and stress bars are unequaled in the industry for quality,
and performance. APS has strong German connections for Exhaust systems,
and is now getting VW Motorsport products imported (with a little of
my help here and there). They have no in-house manufacturing or engineering
facilities, and are strictly a parts supply wherehouse. But nonetheless,
Neuspeed is exclusively theirs, designed to their specifications
(only manufactured by others).
APS Pros:
Neuspeed is great stuff, constantly being changed as flaws, and stress
points are uncovered. Distributors of Koni, Bilstein, Sachs, Momo,
Hella, Cibie, Zender, Kamei, BBS, and a few others. The best prices
in town on these items. In-house chassis dyno. Fair and honest
(very unusually so, in this business). Good at marketing products.
APS Cons:
No engineering or motor expertise. No technical staff (Aaron is the
closest thing to it). Neuspeed is a little overpriced. Overprotective
of the Neuspeed image, and not willing to take chances on experimenting.
APS best products:
Suspension components; throttle bodies; cams; Gillet exhaust.
Autotech Sport Tuning
1800 N. Glassell St.
Orange, Ca 92665
(714) 974-4600
Co-owned by Cark Haas (Lola/Indy-car fame) and Ron Moser (former Drake
employee), Autotech wants to be in every part of the VW market, and be
a specialist in each part of the market too. Body kits, to suspensions,
to motors, everything. Unfortunately, Autotech has NO technical
personnel. No technical staff. No manufacturing, no machine shop,
no engineering department. And likewise it is just as unfortunate
that they would lead you to believe that they do have it all.
Autotech pros:
Great, I mean excellent marketing. Gets 'exclusives' on a few
products that are hard to come by (Quaife differential). (Believe me,
I can't think of any more pro's.)
Autotech cons:
Sells products as 'exclusive' when the truth is that nobody else
sells them because they have long been proven not to work. Takes credit
where credit isn't due. Makes inferior products sound like the best
thing on the market. Uses advertising gimmicks (free gifts) as
sales incentives.
Autotech best products:
Quaife differential.
Drake Performance, Inc.
2340 W. 20th St.
Yuma, Az 85364
(602) 782-9277.
Books can be written about this company's history. And to tell the
truth, I have been asked numerous times why there hasn't been.
Drake Performance, is an offshoot of Drake Engineering & Sales Corp.
Drake Engineering is by far the most knowledgeable source on high
performance VW's. This also extends past VW's to any motor.
In my years of working at Drake, I never could understand why a
customer would have a motor built any other way, than the Drake
way. Ultimately, it boiled down to the customer was talked into
something that 'sounded' like a better deal; built better; or could
make more horsepower than Drake. It was funny to note, that everybody
was concerned about Drake's motors, and used them as the basis of
comparison. This should speak for itself, but it wasn't good enough
for the public, I guess.
Drake Engineering has built 26 Indy-500 winning motors in over 60
years of business. They were manufacturer of the Offenhauser "OFFY"
racing motor. Drake's involvement with the VW motor began as a joint
venture with VW & DRAKE. They got together, and out came the SuperVee
racing motor. Today, Drake DESIGNS & BUILDS motors and heads for
two of the big-3 auto manufacturers. If the VW public knew this, why
would the buy anywhere else? Hans Hermann is chief engineer at Drake,
he is best known for designing BMW's F1 heads back who knows when.
Hans is considered a world famous cylinder head and camshaft designer.
Few people afford the reputation Hans has.
Drake pros:
Best technical expertise in the industry. Builds the best motors
and best cylinder heads in the industry. Has a complete engineering
staff. Extensive machine shop (computerized mills, etc.) Complete
motor building (& manufacturing) facilities. In-house dyno.
Reputation (in the racing industry) that precedes them.
Drake cons:
Poor marketing skills. High price (comes with high expertise) on
motor building. Sometimes slow. Understaffed.
GMP Inc.
710 Pressley Rd.
Charlotte, NC 28217
(704) 525-0941
Sorry, I can't tell you much about GMP, as I have had little 1st hand
experience with them. I can say that we called the owner 'German Joe'
as he is from der fatherland.
Techtonics Tuning
1253 W. La Cadena Dr.
Riverside, Ca 92501
(714) 788-4116
Owned and operated by Darrell Vittone, Techtonics is the only other
'generic' VW motor builder. Darrell has machining facilities, a dyno,
and isn't afraid to experiment. Darrell does excellent work on motors
at a reasonable price. I consider him second to Drake in quality,
reliability, and hp potential. Darrell has a lots of experience with
the VW motor for over 10 years. He gives good sound advice.
Techtonics pros:
Good motors at a good price. Sound advice. Dyno and machining on the
premises. Takes the initiative to have pistons made for the 'rest of
us.'
Techtonics cons:
Sells welded strokers.
So these are the major players in the VW industry (I know, I left out
Callaway...I'll explain in an upcoming article). Only two of them
have machining facilities: Drake & Techtonics. Only two of them have
a dyno (hence the only two reliable sources for HP quotes): Drake and
Techtonics. (Chassis dyno's don't count.)
Next issue, I'll discuss the bottom end of the VW motor.
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and |
| live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself|
| up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. |
| Eph. 5:1,2 |
+------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| Robert Collins | Sykes Systems, Inc |
| 3361 Keys Lane | Specializing in APL |
| Anaheim, Ca. 92804 | 4649 Willens Ave. |
| (714) 995-7344 (Home) | Woodland Hills, Ca. 91364 |
| (714) 229-0284 (Work) | (818) 704-9894 |
+------------------------------+-------------------------------+
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