VR6 POWER UPGRADES
==================
Last update: Jul 25, 1995: Split into G60, GTI & VR6 archives.
I collected a bunch of info on engine power upgrades for the
US versions of the Corrado SLC, VR6 Golf/GTI Jetta/Vento/GTX &
Passat GTX as they all share the same VR6 engine.
I have also included personal impressions of these upgrades.
This is not meant as an advertisement. I have NO affiliation
with any of the listed sources.
I also included items from a posting by:
tpaquette@ita.lgc.com (Trevor Paquette(Contract))
See also G60_Chip_Specs, Performance FAQ, G60_Power_Upgrades,
GTI_Power_Upgrades, Wired_Hotrod, Intake_Mods, for more info.
jan@ug.eds.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW THE CHIP WORKS (G60 & VR6)
==============================
There are several shops that sell performance upgrades in the US
(and probably Europe as well).
One is by AutoThority (AT, in VA) the other by Automotive Perf. Systems
(APS, in CA).
They both offer roughly the same packages, each of which boost
the power, though they use slightly different methods.
AutoThority also sells its chips (for less) thru AutoTech (CA)
and APS thru PlainWrap (for less) and others.
Note, there are also other chips available, such as from Advanced
Motor Sport solutions and Superchips. However, I have virtually
no testimonials about either of these, I cannot comment on their
efficacy.
Essentially what the chips do is to "recurve" the ignition
curves and fuel maps.
According to an article in Wired magazine, the German chips
are generally programmed for smooth city driving while more
aggressive at the top end.
(see http://www.wired.com/Etext/2.05/features/silicon.hot.rod.html)
By advancing the ignition up to knock point you increase
power, most notably low end torque.
The result is ca 20% more low end torque and 10% more max power.
The penalty is that you have to use high octane gas, i.e.,
92 US CLC Octane (R+M/2).
Note that there is quite a debate now which chip is better.
According to a few sources, the AT chips are more delicately
tuned, while the APS chips are less radical.
APS also uses the same chip for their Stage II system while
AT offers different chips for each application.
AT also claims that they tune their chips along the entire range,
while APS concentrates more on the top end.
See the torque curves below for a comparison.
One of the things to keep in mind is that the chips are upgraded
from time to time and some of the initial comments may not be
true anymore...
Another thing to keep in mind is that the chips are not interchangeable
with other cars or even between model years. The maps are the same,
but the microcode in the chips are different.
The 92-93 Corrados with ECU code P & CD, using braker ignition use
the same chips, while the later 93 Corrado with brakerless ignition
use a different chip.
Passat, GTI & Jettas, apparently do not have a removable EPROM, and
require the thing to be soldered out.
OVERVIEW: SLC/VR6
=================
As of 1993, both APS & AA have been busy with performance upgrades
for the SLC.
The first upgrade is a chip which works in the same spirit as the G60
power chips.
The improvement is not very dramatic (7 Hp more), but both APS & AA
claim it makes the car more drivable (a test below disputes this though).
The next upgrade is a throttle body.
The US throttle body has an air ramp right in front of the throttle
plate, restricting air flow. The upgrade (which is really the
European TBody from VW) does not have that ramp, and they claim that
the total package (chip + throttle + K&N filter) added 30 road Hps.
The throttle body is rather pricey (about US$ 300), and I
you can't take your existing tbody and mill that ramp out because there
is not enough material in the casting.
Another difference is that the Euro TBody has a progressive mechanism
to open the throttle valve while the US has a direct hoockup.
This makes the low end more controllable but also seemingly softer
(IMHO).
The third difference is with the potentiometer. It is also different
but I don't know how.
Initial experiments have shown that the TBody & K&N actually improved
our gas mileage for sustained highway driving from about 26 mpg to
about 28 mpg. However, if you use the power, you will use more fuel
than before. YMMV.
Removing the airbox funnel will benefit performance & not produce the
G60 wailing sound. See also Intake_Mods for more info.
The sound of the VR6 with the airbox modifications is awesome!
It's not overbearing on highway cruizing, and each time you accelerate,
you get this nice deep growl.
Later 93 Corrados require two airfilters if the original airbox is removed:
one for the intake, a second (the size of a 1/2 US$ coin) for the airpump.
The kit that APS, AMS, and so on sell for the VR6 Corrados consists
of a bracket and an 8inch cylindrical K&N filter, part number RE-0910.
If you are handy with sheet metal bending you can probably construct
yourself a bracket and save US$50.
After these initial upgrades, it becomes increasingly more expensive
to produce more power. Probably, the next logical step are a new set
of camshafts such as those made by Schrick (US$1300).
After that, the Variable Inlet Manifold (US$2300) may be the next
logical choice. I
From an unconfirmed source [bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche):
>No. The VW is *built* by a corporation. It is designed by engineers
>who probably get as much of a kick out of driving for pleasure as you do.
>Proof of that is in the VR6 option of a VSR (variable inlet manifold)
>providing much more torque in the mid-range and available from VW
>Motorsport. It has not appear in series production due to accountants.
>Nevertheless, the designers developed it further so that it could be
>offered as an "after-market" option.
See also VR6_Variable_Intake, VR6_Variable_Intake_MH & the Pictures
of it.
t improves mostly the mid-range.
The problem is that the combination of all of the above may not
work that well to gether, and a few tuners are working on it as I am
writing this.
There are now also kits being offered by Oetinger that change the intake
manifold, cams and a few other things.
There is also a Turbo charger available from Germany (for 6000US$)
that will boost the SLCs power to about 300Hp, making the car virtually
unmanagable.
Note that the new VW/Ford Van, the Sharan, is supposed to carry a
turbo charged version of the VR6 producing about 250 Hp.
No parts available as yet.
TORQUE CURVES
=============
The following data was inferred from the torque graphs supplied by
AutoThority (yes, I just eye-balled the values, but the resulting graphs
are fairly close to theirs).
The data is in ft/lbs, and it show, (US) G60 Stock, Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3,
and SLC Stock, SLC + AT Chip (SAT) and SLC + APS (SAP).
Note that I have no idea on the accuracy (or reliability)
of any of these measurements.
RPM G60 AA1 AA2 AA3 SLC SAT SAP
1000 97 104 121
1500 117 124 147 147
2000 130 137 168 170 158
2500 140 147 182 190 161
3000 149 160 195 201 171 172 167
3500 157 165 197 204 183 186 187
4000 154 166 207 211 196 199 188
4500 156 162 200 205 197 203 208
5000 135 156 195 200 191 202 193
5500 135 145 175 195 185 188 180
6000 125 131 132 155 166 169 167
6500 106 125 142
Using some smoothing, interpolation & making up some points,
I got the following curves:
G60: Torque = 48.127 + 5.57E-2 x RPM - 7.19E-6 x RPM^2
AA1: Torque = 52.964 + 5.76E-2 x RPM - 7.42E-6 x RPM^2
AA2: Torque = 37.879 + 9.03E-2 x RPM - 1.22E-5 x RPM^2
AA3: Torque = 32.821 + 9.23E-2 x RPM - 1.19E-5 x RPM^2
SLC: Torque = 63.750 + 4.43E-2 x RPM - 1.62E-7 x RPM^2 - 7.21E-10 x RPM^3
SAT: Torque = 68.374 + 3.55E-2 x RPM + 3.68E-6 x RPM^2 - 1.12E-9 x RPM^3
All the data fitted with 96% or better Pierson Correlation Coeff.
(Better fit with 3rd degree equation)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPRESSIONS
===========
P-CHIP for the !SLC!
====================
Subject: Corrado performance chips
From: ahogben@informix.com (Andrew Hogben)
Date: 6 May 93 17:17:08 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Originator: ahogben@mirage
Lines: 34
Last night I heard some interesting information in which Jan and a few others
might be interested. My brother has a friend who owns a shop that, among
other things, has a rolling road dyno. It seems when my brother was there
his friend was testing an SLC that had a Neuspeed "chip" installed (that was
the only mod). Well, the results were very disappointing. It had a gain
of *1* (yes, that's a _one_) horsepower at I don't remember what rpm. It
actually *lost* 1-2 hp at other rpm and was no different over the rest of the
test (you can take your engine as high as you want, but if/when it goes bang,
it's your problem. And yes, some engines do go bang :-). In this case the
owner wanted the car tested to redline. So, this is some concrete evidence
about one of the "chips" available for the Corrado. One thing the dyno
obviously can't test is any change in drivability, but overall it doesn't
seem to be worth it in this case (at least IMO).
Andy
--
Andy Hogben
Informix Software, Inc.
ahogben@informix.com -or- {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!ahogben
'87 GTI 8v (weekdays) -or- '73 Lotus Europa Special (weekends)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From New Dimensions's BBS:
Probably TurboTim
We have tested all the Neuspeed chips and we show from 4-7 hp gain at
all rpm points. Will have to post the results of the dyno test for all
to read. The 6 cyl. chips works great! Just like your Golf chip did!
Tom, there is not a chip for the 1.8 16V. Bummer!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mshearer@math.ucla.edu (Michael Shearer)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 10:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: jan@lipari.usc.edu
X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
BTW: I bought the AutoThority chip for my VR6...I'm probably going to
return it. A LOT of pinging, even with 92 octane gas + octane
booster. I haven't really noticed any jump in performance either.
Still want to do a little more testing, but it looks bad.
Mike
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: loik@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Matias Loikkanen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Have you tried a P-Chip in your VR6?
Date: 14 Nov 1994 16:21:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine
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In article <3a62j7$96f@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, Saidra wrote:
>I am thinking about buying a VW with a VR6 (Corrado, Jetta, Passat). I
>keep having these fantasies about putting some mods on the engine. Just
>enough to make it a little crazy but very drivable too. I want to know if
>any of you have any advice on putting in a power chip or maybe a less
>restrictive air box.
>
I have the P-flow K&N air filter setup and also the throttle body --
sounds great but not convinced it gives me noticable hp improvement.
I also had the P-chip (all these from Neuspeed BTW) but took it out
since it went bad (something went wrong, I don't know what). Well,
I notice absolutely no difference in power below 5500rpm. Perhaps
it adds some in the very high (with the chip that is) end but I don't `
think it is worth it. Other VR6 owners have said that these mods really
don't do that much ( to the G60 they do make much more of a diff).
Mat
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mat Loikkanen University of California, Irvine loik@ece.uci.edu
Dept. of Elect. and Computer Egr.
1992 VW Corrado SLC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jan Vandenbrande
Date: Oct/Nov 94
I just installed the VR6 TBody on our 92 Corrado SLC as the first
power improvements (other than K&N) to this car.
It's an expensive piece of equipment, but buying directly from
PlainWrap you get a bit of break. The odd thing is, if you order
through plainwrap, APS actually ships it...so I wonder if PW has
become part of APS...Same box, shipping label == APS, etc.
I have never met the guys at PW, but my wife did while picking up a part.
They are a bunch of hard core racers and started this business (with
sales of computer software in the same office) to support their
racing expences.
Installation is about as easy as it gets, and took me under an hour
to do with some cleaning of parts included.
The main difference between the STock US TBody and the APS one is
that it does not have the restrictor in front of the throttle valve.
APS's TBody is nothing more than the one VW puts on their European
counter parts, and therefore it's a perfect fit. The part even says
VW on it and it is made by Pierburg (AAAHHHHH, memories of my Pierburg
Zenith 2B5 carb comes to mind, where is my shotgun).
Other differences are that the Euro/APS T body has a different
potentiometer and a different ratio to open the throttle.
The only adjustment to make is to adjust the accelerator cable.
Despite my earlier claims, you cannot mill out the old TBody and
remove that ramp. There is not enough material in the casting!
Now why did they do that for! Furthermore the potentiometer should
also be adjusted..
I also had a chance to look into the VR6 Intake Manifold, boy is that
surface rough! I looked into Extrude Hone before, but they are so
bloody expensive! They want 800 US$ to do the manifold, but they do
claim between 5 and 10% power gain.
Perhaps I should just spend a weekend pollishing it my self, if I
can figure out how to do it...(I kind-a now how but never tried it).
Anyone?
See the file VW_Perf_Time to see the differences.
The car is a bit more powerful, but mostly at the top end, the low
end is softer. It removed some of the "snap" that it used to have.
This may not be so much a loss of power, but rather may have more to
do with the variable or progressive rate at which the TBody now opens.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mcssechfs@dct.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Corrado Stage II vs SLC
Date: 11 Jun 93 11:37:48 +0100
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
> Some of the VAG garages offer a 215bhp Corrado(Auto unfortunately).
>
Details of the above modification are as follows:-
CVR6/3 Nothelle conversion.
This conversion is relatively modest. The standard bores and pistons
are retained giving a displacement of 2861cc. Most of the work is confined to
the cylinder head. Together with the manifold,which is modified to ensure
optimum gas flow. The standard valves are opened by a pair of 274 degree
camshafts. Camshaft design is one of Nothelle's specialities.
The induction system from air intake to inlet manifold is carefully
smoothed and the engine management system has a modified control unit which
compliments the new parameters.
These mods result in the power output being increased from the standard
190bhp to 215bhp. Equally significant is the rise in maximum torque, from 180
to 201 lb ft.
Maximum power is developed at 6000rpm and max. torque at 4250rpm.
0-60 6.6secs
Max speed 155mph
power to weight ratio 181 bhp/ton>
The car sits on 215/40 ZR16 's to get the extra power onto the road.
Hope this of interest. It will be to Jan!!
> Chuck
> Dundee
(signing off 1993, may the
force be with you.)
Article 24742 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: [W] Corrado Queries
Message-ID:
Keywords: SLC
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <2fn83tINNt1r@lynx.unm.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 00:08:37 GMT
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In article <2fn83tINNt1r@lynx.unm.edu> jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>In article jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill) writes:
>John, how do you like the AT chip on the vr6? What effect?
>Initial reports on the vr6 chips were rather negative.
>Considered the new throttle body as yet?
The chip makes some difference, but not that dramatic. The engine
does seems to pull from low RPM's a little better, but then it did
anyway. The high end did improve, I discovered that the engine comes
alive again at about 6000 and starts reving harder again. I got the
most bang for the buck from the APS P-flow airfilter, it makes the
engine sound like a small block. Haven't considered the throttle
body, it's just too expensive for the hp gain in my view. I wonder
if a bunch of VR6's owners could make a group purchase and get any kind
of discount. Back to the chip, no one advertises much of a gain with
chips for VR6 motors, VW probably did ok with the original programming.
I've noticed 1994 Corrados are speed limited to 130mph, if you have
to go faster a chip might be worthwhile. I think it is anyway though.
jh
Article 24714 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: alex@poa.poweropen.org
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: SUPERCHIPS G60 upgrade
Date: 26 Dec 1993 14:06:39 -0600
Organization: PowerOpen Association, Inc.
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Greetings,
Saw an ad for SUPERCHIPS in European Car that mentioned G60 upgrades.
Called them and asked for info.. Received a brochure in the mail. It
is full of silliness! For example...
picutre is of VR6 Corrado, not G60
"...the chassis is very competent and the 4 wheel drive system..."
"...the rev limiter is raised from 5800 RPM to 6500 RPM..."
random grammatical errors
Anyway...
They do offer 7 days' money-back guarantee, and a 12-month warranty (on what,
who knows?). Quite a large list of dealers, including one in Boston, where I live.
Has anyone had any experience with SUPERCHIPS? Their material is a big turn-off,
but maybe the product itself is interesting....
I'm not really tempted to go with them over Neuspeed or AutoThority, but I hadn't
heard any discussion of SUPERCHIPS at all, so thought I would throw this out.
Happy solstice!
Alex
Article 24779 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: mshearer@abel.math.ucla.edu (Michael Shearer)
Subject: Re: [W] Corrado Queries
Message-ID: <1993Dec28.183739.13674@math.ucla.edu>
Keywords: SLC
Sender: news@math.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
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Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 18:37:39 GMT
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In article jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill) writes:
>In article <2fn83tINNt1r@lynx.unm.edu> jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>>In article jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill) writes:
>>John, how do you like the AT chip on the vr6? What effect?
>>Initial reports on the vr6 chips were rather negative.
>>Considered the new throttle body as yet?
>
> The chip makes some difference, but not that dramatic. The engine
>does seems to pull from low RPM's a little better, but then it did
>anyway. The high end did improve, I discovered that the engine comes
>alive again at about 6000 and starts reving harder again. I got the
>most bang for the buck from the APS P-flow airfilter, it makes the
>engine sound like a small block. Haven't considered the throttle
>body, it's just too expensive for the hp gain in my view. I wonder
>if a bunch of VR6's owners could make a group purchase and get any kind
>of discount. Back to the chip, no one advertises much of a gain with
>chips for VR6 motors, VW probably did ok with the original programming.
>I've noticed 1994 Corrados are speed limited to 130mph, if you have
>to go faster a chip might be worthwhile. I think it is anyway though.
>jh
>
I have the AT chip, although right now the stock chip is in the car.
Using 92 octane gas (the highest grade which is readily available in CA),
the following things occur: low end (<3000rpm) improves noticably, above
3000-3500 knovking starts big-time if I'm more than, say, 20% throttle,
gas mileage seems to improve a little. There are a few gas stations
around where I can get higher octane fuel, but it's very expensive,
so I switch the chips out every once in a while.
I've been wondering if the P-flow would be worth buying. Any more
info from John would be helpful (or Jan of course).
Also, if the throttle body was cheeaper, I might give it a try. I
suppose I'd rate my interest level about the same as John's.
Mike
Article 24834 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: [W] Corrado Queries
Message-ID:
Keywords: SLC
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <2fn83tINNt1r@lynx.unm.edu> <1993Dec28.183739.13674@math.ucla.edu>
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In article <1993Dec28.183739.13674@math.ucla.edu> mshearer@abel.math.ucla.edu (Michael Shearer) writes:
>
>I have the AT chip, although right now the stock chip is in the car.
>Using 92 octane gas (the highest grade which is readily available in CA),
>the following things occur: low end (<3000rpm) improves noticably, above
>3000-3500 knovking starts big-time if I'm more than, say, 20% throttle,
>gas mileage seems to improve a little. There are a few gas stations
>around where I can get higher octane fuel, but it's very expensive,
>so I switch the chips out every once in a while.
>I've been wondering if the P-flow would be worth buying. Any more
>info from John would be helpful (or Jan of course).
>Also, if the throttle body was cheeaper, I might give it a try. I
>suppose I'd rate my interest level about the same as John's.
I think the P-flow is a must have. However, I asked AutoThority
about using their chip with the P-flow and the throttle body, and the
salemans eyes (I stopped by in Fairfax) kind of rolled back in his head
and he went into convulsions. He then started babbling about how their
programming can't/wouldn't work with the APS mods, seemed to imply my
engine might fry. Their chip works fine with the P-flow. If you are in
CA and having trouble with pinging, you would probably be much better
off giving APS a call and using their chip instead. Aaron doesn't seem
to be as aggressive in the timing modifications to the map and pinging
should be less of a problem. AutoThority is historically very aggresive
in their programming. They usually will re-program you a new less
agressive chip if you are having problems.
Article 32475 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: e0ewqbwu@tuzo.erin (Roy Kao)
Subject: Oettinger kit for Corrado VR6
Message-ID:
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Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 22:08:25 GMT
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After finding the advertisement in this month's european car, I called
GTA in Quebec about the Oettinger kit for the VR6 engine. You know what,
it's exact same modifications as in the car featured a few months ago
in this very magazine. I called and found out that the kit cost about
$4,500 Cdn. and includes replacement camshafts and chips.
They don't have the correct filter box yet, but Louie, the guy in charge
of H2O cooled VW's, told me that the Neuspeed P-Flo will work fine.
They are also getting a new chromed header from Oettinger Technik. BTW,
the grill that was featured in the article is also available as a kit
for $450 Cdn. The modifications will bump output to about 215 bhp and
about 192 ft. lb. torque. Wowsers!!! I can't wait until my warranty
runs out, who needs an M3 when I can have a 215 bhp VW!!!??? BTW,
the work must be done at a race shop VERY knowledgeable with VW engines
and electronics.
--
* Roy Kao *
* *
* e0ewqbwu@tuzo.erin.utoronto.ca *
Article 32542 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: kafka@cats.ucsc.edu (Gary Andrew Yuen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Oettinger kit for Corrado VR6
Date: 20 May 1994 20:58:00 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
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Distribution: na
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In article <2rj69l$dtt@lipari.usc.edu> jan@lipari.usc.edu (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>In article mvoorhis@zklzz.WPI.EDU (Michael C Voorhis) writes:
>>In article <2rikda$m54@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> kafka@cats.ucsc.edu (Gary Andrew Yuen) writes:
>>> I called GTA a while ago also. That was before they advertised the
>>> kit and the guy I talked to mentioned that was one of the things
>>> available. I think the VW Motorsport VSR manifold will yield more
>>> power though. If you had that, new cams, P-Flow, and ask APS to
>>> create a custom chip from the one that comes with the VSR manifold, I
>>> think you would get more power than from that kit.
>>
>>Where does one get a VW Motorsport intake manifold, if one isn't in
>>Germany though? I can't just order the thing from the dealership, and
>>I've not seen a place running ads for it at any time...
>>
>>What's the cost of the VW Motorsport variable inlet intake manifold in
>>US$, anyway?
>
>AutoTech (see the FAQ for #s) in San Juan Capistrano can get them
>for you (the guy whose used rims I bought for my SLC had one put on)
>and I think New Dimensions was looking at one.
>You can call VWMotorsport directly as well. See the faq...
>
>They are EXPENSIVE, about 2300US$. Comes with a new chip and stuff.
>However, the results are impressive, I think you get around 20Hp
>more at 3000 rpms but it leave the top end power about the same.
The VSR manifold comes with a chip similar to stock that hasn't had
it's fuel and timing curves tuned so I would think that you could ask APS
to make a chip for that manifold and in addition to a few other parts,
you could get more power than from the Oettinger kit which costs about $3200.
Gary
Article 32569 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: Oettinger kit for Corrado VR6
Message-ID:
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <2rikda$m54@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 14:13:23 GMT
Lines: 15
In article mvoorhis@zklzz.WPI.EDU (Michael C Voorhis) writes:
>
>What's the cost of the VW Motorsport variable inlet intake manifold in
>US$, anyway?
Probably a lot more than you want to spend. I heard they around $2000
a pop, if you can find one. I found with my SLC the best and most cost
efficient upgrades to get more power were just a chip and the P-flow.
This combination makes about 190hp, and makes the engine sound great.
I found this level of power adequate, although if I still had it
I probably would have sunk $1200 by now for the Schrick cams. Glad
I sold it.
Article 32578 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: e0ewqbwu@tuzo.erin (Roy Kao)
Subject: Re: Oettinger kit for Corrado VR6
Message-ID:
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Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 22:37:00 GMT
Lines: 38
In article <2rj4jd$dr4@lipari.usc.edu>,
Jan Vandenbrande wrote:
>I sent these guys a fax asking for more info. Haven't received anything
>as yet.
>So they use camshafts, a chip, and another header (exhaust) to get
>more power? How's the idle and at how's the power band move, i.e.,
>at what rpms do we get the gain? How's gas mileage?
>
>Hey Mark H, when are you gonna tell us about your variable inlet manifold?
>Did the EC guys come around as yet?
>
>Jan -- using my school accound because our news server died.
>
>
>--
>-----------------
>Jan Vandenbrande
>jan@lipari.usc.edu (Research address)
>jan@ug.eds.com (Work address)
Jan, I'm at school right now so I don't have the exact data. However,
I'll dig up the old "european car" issue, about March I think, where I
found the article and I'll find out more. All I remember off the top
of my head though, is that it made 215 bhp, I don't know whether it is
SAE or DIN rating. Some people have claimed that the VW Motorsport
intake manifold, at ~$2000 U.S. a shot, along with APS Neuspeed upgrades
is more cost effective than the $3300 U.S. GTA is asking for with
its Oettinger kit, do you agree? I'm not sure that an intake manifold
along with the regular P-Flo, chip, and throttle body upgrades will
be better than replacing the camshafts and working within the engine
than around it. I'd love the hear your comment, in the mean time, I'll
look for that article. I'm not in a huge rush to do the upgrades, I'm
not crazy about voiding my last two years of warranty.
--
* Roy Kao *
* *
* e0ewqbwu@tuzo.erin.utoronto.ca *
Article 35512 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: armstron@crl.com (Edward Armstrong)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Oettinger and the VR6
Date: 13 Jul 1994 11:09:04 -0700
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access
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Message-ID: <301ak0$esb@crl.crl.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crl.com
Summary: VR6
Keywords: VR6
Hi I few weeks ago I noticed a thread started by you Corrado guys on the
Oettinger performance kit for the VR6. Well, I noticed that in the British
rag PERFORMANCE CAR they had an article about just this kit. I'll summarize
what I remember: Basically this kit is the standard performance stuff,
hotter cam and polished and slightly reworked intake and exhaust manifolds.
The writer said the low end was not improved but the mid and high range
were signifcantly improved. 0-60 mph droped a 1/2 second to the low 6
sec range.Power went from 190-->215 hp and torque was up too but I don't
remember the number. Anyway the writer/driver was generally impressed by
this performance upgrade. Price: expensive.
This mag may be hard to find in North American non-urban areas. Its is an in-
teresting forum for small fast cars like VW's etc and has lots of big color
photos. As a side note the article had some history on the Oettinger company.
Seems like they were big in the 80's with Gti and Audi performance parts.
In the 90's they took a nose dive and had to close. Just recently (1992?)
an ex employee reopened on a much smaller scale in the old warehouse.
The warehouse (near Frankfurt) is still appartently stock full of older
VW performance parts (send them over here!) including an engine that will
make your VW Transporter go 125 mph!
--ed
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: New Dimensions
Left by: TIM HILDABRAND Replied # 129
Sent to: VANDENBRANDE Status: Public
Topic: AMS & G60 Woes Rcvd: 12-03-94, 16:56
>Stuff about AMS deleted<
Hey now this sounds like a testimonial for mark at AMS,
but experience with happy customers should be most important
when taking performance advise. The VR6 car you are
experimenting with is equipped similar to ones we work with.
ND's first VR6 testing was done in August 92 on an 92 Passat .
We use all the Neupeed stuff that was available at the time
-p-chip -throttle body, modified air box with K&N filter, a
mildly ported intake manifold, and a ND sport stainless exhaust
system. This car produced 209 hp . The current VR6 test car is a
92 VR6 SLC. This car is equipped as above with the addition of a
Neuspeed p-flow ,of corse now it has the VSR manifold and 268
cams, the result is lost Neuspeed p-chip to use the VSR. The VSR
made good low end improvement but nothing good or bad in the top
end even with the cams. Quarter mile times we as follows- 1) all
Neupeed no VSR or cams 15.4 @90mph 2) w/ 80hp nos 14.3 @ 101 3)
Neuspeed with 268 cams w/80hp nos 14.2 @111
4) no p-chip w/VSR and cams no nos 14.89 @93 all test could
have been better but traction at start was always poor. Sorry
this car has not been dyno tested since it just had neuspeed
p-chip and throttle body at 200 hp. We will try to get some
testing done fully equipped VR6 sometime next year. This test
car has none of the problems you have complained about no
pinging with and without VSR stuff. The performance of the car
is respectfully for the bolt on performance. True the manifold
and cams are too expensive for the gain . The low
end performance is so good the top feels bad because it stays
the same, so if you what low end grunt buy it all. If
performance to the dollar is a concern just do the neuspeed
stuff. More than 210-215 will be hard if legality counts .
CHIPS
Neuspeed chips work, we have dyno tested , they work because
of 20 years dyno experience, knowledge of timing and fuel
curves. Curves that work for performance and reliability needed
for all driving conditions. The process of burning, Give me a
break I bet most of you know that this process is simple. But
who had this knowledge first WHO CARES! If the burning knowledge
was worth royalties other people would be in line far before
Mark would. A division of VW of America came to Aaron for some
custom chip work to help with idle problems on A3 Cabrios. Also
remember that Neuspeed has been making chips for VW's since 1990
when replacable e-proms first appeared in VW's.
Did Mark really say he expected to get 250 hp from cams Hey
this most be a misprint the European ABT 3.1 with cams, chip
and throttle body only gets 240 hp- go figure!!
>Comments on G60s deleted see the G60 archive<
When looking for companies and products for you car, trust is
most important. Neuspeed has been producing good quality
products for a long time and should be around for along time to
come some other people in the business will not be. New
Dimensions has been in the VW business since 1985 -we do full
service and performance work at our shop. We offer a 12 month
and 12,000 mile written warrantee on our work we have to sell
products that work or we have to make them work at our expense,
this does not happen with Neuspeed parts or we would not install
them. We test and install most everything we sell. Research of
performance parts is very important and a smart move on
everyone's part. Our new catalog will contain true test and
proven parts a service only availability from a service company.
I have to say I am slightly opinionated I have been at ND
since 1987. We put a lot of effort to make good products
available. Usually only talking about positive things where ever
possible without slamming another product for there bad points.
Recently I have noticed more calls with customers saying Mark
basically sells his chip by slamming others, and most recently a
turbo customer said Mark said our turbo systems caused too much
stress on the motor and his 16V system would not. Let get
something straight a properly used turbo car can be very
reliable, and abused one will not. We have
over 1,000 units on the road (inc. Callway version) I don't
believe the AMS systems has even sold two. How would someone
with so few systems tested have a right to rip a proven product
, simple you don't have any thing better to do. Mark seems to be
pretty smart when it comes to ideas but he should not try to
succeed by copying and smearing others and others products. Talk
is cheap but I don't believe there is much truth to the smear
claims.
Happy motoring
Joe Funk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From <@camhpp49.ug.eds.com,@mail.uunet.ca:tom.neumann@canrem.com> Tue Oct 11 23:33 PDT 1994
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 20:58:00 -0400
From: tom.neumann@canrem.com (Tom Neumann)
Subject: RE: CORRADO & OTHERS PROB
To: jan@camhpp49 (Jan Vandenbrande)
Message-Id: <60.16716.104.0C1B410E@canrem.com>
Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario)
X-Envelope-To: jan@fshpp1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
Hi Jan!
I was recently speaking with Gunther Schmidt; he races the Jetta GLX
(VR6) quite successfully.
Engine mods allowed in his class are quite minor and he mentioned some
tips for the VR6 engine.
His, out of the box, and before balancing and blue-printing, got 184
hp on the dyno. He tore it down, balanced and blueprinted it and did
two minor modifications: he changed to the K&N air filter (the free
flowing one) and used the Passat manifold piece that connects the
airbox to the intake manifold. He replaced the chip in the engine
management system to eliminate the speed limiter (and swears that's
the only change he made to it!).
The result of the above is 215 hp on the dyno with a good increase in
midrange torque. I mentioned that some people had mixed reults with
the free flowing air filter and he told me the secret of it: He found,
through dyno testing and race experience, that the VR6 engine is quite
sensitvie to the air temperature going into the air intake. When he
just ran the filter in the normal engine compartment lots of hot air
was going into the intake with the result that there was little, if
any, power gain.
He made some ductwork that ducts air directly from the front of the
car into the air filter (in his case on the racing car through the
right headlight assembly) and noticed gains in the power immediately.
You might want to mention this in the FAQ as it sounds like a way that
most people will get some extra power. Obviously they wouldn't want to
remove the headlight, but htere must be other ways to insure the
filter gets fresh, cool air.
Tom
---
* 1st 1.11 #3720 * I sell Volkswagens
Newer additions:
================
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article 5555 of rec.autos.vw:
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Neuspeed VS "the others"
Message-ID:
From: mvoorhis@inferno.WPI.EDU (Michael C Voorhis)
Date: 27 Apr 1995 14:23:22 GMT
References: <3mup8t$8hv@diplomatic.passport.ca>
<3n9ldn$2o0@kelowna.awinc.com>
Organization: RSUC -- Russell Street UNIX & Caffeine
NNTP-Posting-Host: inferno.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: jhamill@tiac.net's message of Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:04:44
Lines: 12
I can't see spending %150 (or $100!) for a Neuspeed K&N fitler that
can be gotten directly from K&N for about $50. Make the metal
retaining bracket yourself (sheet metal, a vice, a drill and a little
patience needed) and pocket the $50 or $100 you're going to save.
Here are two models:
RE-0910, 3" ID, OD from 4 5/8" to 5" and 8" long
RE-0930, 3" ID, OD from 4 5/8 to 6 and 6" long
Mike (mvoorhis@wpi.edu)
86 Jetta GL, 93 Corrado SLC, 67 Beetle
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed May 31 11:42 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 11:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jan Vandenbrande
Subject: Re: VR6 T-body Mods
In-Reply-To: ;
from "Hulda Jowett" at May 30, 95 9:34 pm
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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> Jan, I'm suprised to hear that you had little gain w/ the 2.9 T-B. My
> stock ported one feels great everywhere! I didn't add any material to the
There is feel and there are measurements.
The EuroTB feels a tad softer, especially at the low end but that just
may be due to the progressive mechanism. The high end seemed more
free flowing.
But I am an engineer/scientist/whatever, and so I don't like to
rely on purely subjective impressions (e.g., louder cars seem faster,
brighter TV sets look sharper, etc).
What I usually measure is before and after acceleration figures,
and these obviously do not capture things like throttle responce:
92 SLC + K&N + Syntec
--------------------- [JHV]
2nd: 20-40 mph 3.07 - 3.40 secs
3rd: 40-60 mph 4.60 - 4.80 secs
3rd: 60-70 mph 2.89 secs
4th: 50-70 mph 5.64 secs
92 SLC + TBody + K&N + Syntec
------------------------------ [JHV]
2nd: 20-40 mph 3.42 secs
3rd: 40-60 mph 4.20 - 4.60 secs
My estimated error on these are .2 secs, unclear whether these measurements
are statistically significant.
In my 2nd gear test I got virtually no gain (actually a slow down!)
and in the 3rd gear test I am ahead about .3 secs.
Not much to brag about IMHO. Perhaps there are other things wrong
with the car. Also note that this is without a chip and
w/o a PFlow using just a replacement K&N airfilter element and
the Helmholtz resonators removed.
Some say the TBody does not get its fullest potential unless you have
the PFlow...
> away with out going through. How is the 2.9 progressive? I thought the
> ramps in the stock T-B are what made it progressive. There's a small ramp
The Euro TB does not have any of these air ramps. Instead of attaching
the accelerator cable directly onto the cam attached to the throttle,
there is a 2 (3?) link mechanism that slows opening of the throttle
from the closed position and speeds it up towards WOT.
With this TBody, the car does not have this "jumpy" feel at idle.
--
o ___|___ [\\] | Jan Vandenbrande jan@ug.eds.com
__0 /\0/ /-------\ _ | "For once I'd like to encounter an alien
\<,_ O \\ (_________) .#/_\_. | being that is not immune to bullets"
(_)/ (_) // [_] [_] |_(_)_| | The Brigadier, Dr. Who.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue May 30 18:45 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 21:34:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Re: VR6 T-body Mods
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Jan, I'm suprised to hear that you had little gain w/ the 2.9 T-B. My
stock ported one feels great everywhere! I didn't add any material to the
dimple in mine. There is actually Quite a bit of metal that can be ground
away with out going through. How is the 2.9 progressive? I thought the
ramps in the stock T-B are what made it progressive. There's a small ramp
on the top which I also ground away. No polishing, just cleaned it up
afterwards with a dremel. I was always led to believe that polishing was
a waste of time since the air along the walls is stagnant. later
Brian A. Jowett
93 VR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri May 26 20:38 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 23:31:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: VR6 throtle body mods
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I'm new here so you may already know this. You can port the stock t-body
on VR6s. I did mine just the other day, and I am very pleased with the
results. Throtle response is improved from idle on up, and high rpm is
better than ever.
You can only grind so far, so its not as big as the 2.9 t-body. But hey
it dosn't cost $350 either.
I also made my own cone type air filter. K&N part no. RE0810 fits
excellent, costs about $45.00. Make a braket yo-self. Oh yeah, no air
pump on my car. Hope to save somone some money. See ya.
Brian 93 SLC
hjowett@nasc.mass.edu
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jun 14 14:10 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 16:57:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Re: P-Flo thoughts....and a question.
In-Reply-To: <9506141811.AA25978@csupomona.edu>
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Who needs a machine shop to make a braket? I bent a bracket at home in my
vise. I then painted it flash red to match the car. The bracket attaches
to the front of the filter and mounts on the rear bolt for the radiator
support. It looks waaay better than the tuners, plus it's one of a kind.
I take pride in my car and the components I put on it. Anyone can bolt
parts on that someone else makes. But it's really cool when your at the
shows, to have people ask you, who makes that neat filter?
But hey, to each his own. If you feel it's neccesary to spend $120 for a
filter, go right ahead. I spent the $80 I saved on a front stressbar.
Brian
93 VR6
>
> >I'll post this again even though you've probably seen it. You can make
> >your own performance filter for both VR6s and G60s. K&N part no. RE0810
> >fits excellent and costs about $47 ( VR6 ). For G60s I've seen people at
> >shows useing the the Mustang filter from K&N, not sure what the part no.
> >is. Make a pretty bracket yourself.
>
> >Brian A. Jowett
> >93 VR6
>
> Since I don't have access to a machine shop, I wanted to have the fixup place
> make a bracket for me. It turns out that it would cost about 40-50 bucks to
> make one, so there would be little to no savings. I though, going cheap on my
> Corrado would really bother my conscience. People, we did not buy a Corrado to
> save money.
>
>
> Lawrence Wu
> LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
>
> Black/Black Corrado SLC
> "...racers are like Congressmen. They
> wake up, first thing they say is 'How
> can I get more power today?'"
>
>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jun 14 15:13 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 14:20:41 TZ
From: Scott Stiles
Subject: More P-Flo
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What I really think the "ideal" P-Flo installation is missing is a
shield/funnel that would serve 2 purposes:
1) direct the cold air from the cold-air inlet (rear of the
headlamp assy.) towards the filter
2) shield the filter from the hot-air surrounding the engine
it might not protect it completely from convected heat
but it would protect it from radiant.
I think the major drawback to the P-Flo is the cold-air
issue, if someone on the list (more motivated than me)
could hack together a shield it would be pretty
marketable me thinks.
I've mocked up something really basic with cardboard, I
would think you could do it with a single piece of galv.
sheet metal (or stainless). My dad suggested using
a cookie sheet, not a bad idea...
Basically, it's just a sheet with a bend at the right point
to shield both the side and the top of the filter.
Scott.
scottst@microsoft.com
93 VR6
95 Cabrio (I'm not paying for it, thank god)
| > I put the Neuspeed P-Flo on my car this past Friday and
have enjoyed
| > lighting up the throttle through the tunnels on I-64 in East Louisville.
| > Man that sound is loud. Pure joy. This is what I miss from my 4cyl
| > VWs....they sounded like race cars....now my VR6 does too. This has
| > prompted my friend to think twice about leaving his G60 stock. The
| > growling wail is just music, but yet if you dont throttle hard, the car
| > sounds 90% the same as it did before. The car is wild when you want it to
| > be, but civil when you need it to be.
| >
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Jun 20 20:10 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 22:59:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: VR6 Mass Airflow Sensor Mods
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I removed the screens from my MAS today. The car is louder, might be
quiker even. I did not time the runs. Jan, would you care to do some?
Instuctions for removing - Remove MAS from car, Remove large C clips that
hold the screens in place, remove screens, put MAS back in car. Easy. Not
permanent. Oh yeah, the cooling fins are there, I'm leaving them alone.
Brian 93 VR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jun 21 09:37 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 12:10:58 -0400
From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: VR6 Turbo is on the way
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In a message dated 95-06-20 23:10:58 EDT, you write:
>Just recieved info from Tim on the VR6 turbo. Without the intercooler
>you
>get 248hp, and 280lbft of tourqe at 3000RPM.
It is also at 6 psi so we know what we can do with an intercooler and 10 psi.
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
**TT**
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jun 28 01:20 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 01:11:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lawrence Wu
Subject: Re: P-FLO kit
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>>I installed the P-FLO filter kit last Friday from APS. It probably did give
>>me at least 5 more hp or one big reason. As in this months European Car, the
>>screen on the air intake to the filter box was clogged with leaves and one
>>huge moth. I've got 40K on the car. They suggested to remove the prefilter
>>screen. I agree. You'll still have a big filter there that if a big bug lands
>>on it won't change the filter surface area as much as on the screen.
>>
>>As for the K&N, it is nice. Is the bracket worth 50 bucks. Well it made
>>installation in 20 minutes a snap, and it is good quality and not sheet metal
>>like I would have made.
>How do you like the sound of the P-FLO.. I'm also thinking about adding one,
>but am
>concerned that it's overly loud and would get annoying after a while..
You can only hear it when you are past half throttle. It's not annoying, since
it's only when the engine is being pushed, plus it sounds so damn fine.
Rode in a Ferrari Dino today, and then thought to myself, "It doesn't sound
any more musical than the VR6 with the K&N."
I like the construction of the Neuspeed bracket, but if you want to save some
money, and get the large K&N (I swapped the Neuspeed one for this one) or the
regualr one, call Gilbert at The Place. They make the brackets too. I think he
said he'd sell the whole set for around $85, if I recall right, but calling
him would probably be the most accurate way of getting the info. Their number
is (818)966-4888
....Now back to the show...
Lawrence Wu
LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Black/Black Corrado SLC
"...racers are like Congressmen. They
wake up, first thing they say is 'How
can I get more power today?'"
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jul 7 15:48 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 07 Jul 1995 18:32:55 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cams
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I also posted some questions on VR6 cams earlier on but here's the extent of
my knowledge on this subject:
Cams with a wilder profile are indeed the next logical choices after the
standard Neuspeed mods, since the VSR intake manifold is rather pricey, and
engine bore & stroke, or cylinder head port & polish, are pretty radical and
costly stuff.
Also, the Corrado's stock exhaust system is so good that most attempts to
improve it by going to larger diameter pipes actually result in power loses
at the lower rpms,
though Eurosport & Autotech's exhaust systems will net you 5 to 7 hp, at the
expense of more noise, which some people might like!
Anyway, I digress. Schrick cams? Good stuff! Schrick has a strong reputation
in Germany and also do grinds for prepped BMWs, etc. I've talked to a
couple of people with the 260 Schricks in their Corrados, they were generally
very happy with their choices, reported an extra boost of 10 hp or so above
4000 rpm and a well-behaved idle, coupled with a menacing growl when the
engine comes on cam. The 268 should give you even more peak power higher up,
the downside being a slightly rougher idle...
ABT's 268? They are one of the most repected German tuners so I'm sure the
cam's of the highest quality. It's also lighter and cheaper than the
Schrick... However, the cams are not manufactured by ABT, but by Sugo (may
not be the correct spelling), and I've been warned about the Sugo cams having
rigidity problems due to their hollow construction. Also this cam is
configured ideally for ABT's 3.0 Litre engine conversion, not for a stock
2.8L VR6...
P.S. Ron's Parts are the official Schrick importers but you can also get them
from APS, VW Specialties, European Import Performance, AMS, Autotech, etc.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Jul 8 22:59 PDT 1995
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Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 01:51:35 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: Air intake improvements?
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Just wanted to pass on some comments from AOL's Corrado message board re this
topic:
******************************************************************************
**********
From: Swede6969
I constructed a air intake for my 91 CRX si once and it made a noticeable
differance in preformance. What I did was I bought the tubing for air
conditioning for homes. I attached it to the original air intake housing and
pulled it so it was under the front spoiler, ram air i guess. It worked for
me and I bet if you put a little more time and effort in the results would be
even greater. Just an idea I thought i'd share with you guys.
******************************************************************************
**********
From: SizzerHand
Actually, UNIQUEVR6, in one of the VW FAQs there is discussion about a fellow
who has done just what you are asking about to his Jetta GLX - apparently the
VR6 works better with COLD air anyway, and while the P-Flow is quick and
dirty, and reduces airflow restriction, it's not as good as it COULD be if
you could get COLD air to the car. They just updated the FAQs, and they're
also on the WEB - have you gotten the WEB for AOL and gotten to rec.autos.vw
in the newsgroups?
******************************************************************************
**********
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Jul 8 22:48 PDT 1995
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 01:39:29 -0400
From: HAPPIG@aol.com
Subject: Re: whistling noise when accelerating
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wilfred@io.org Wrte:
>Hi I have a 1994 Corrado VR6, and right now it has 8000Km. I have this funny
>whistling noise whenever I accelerate from 2000 rpm to 3000 rpm. The sound
Well, almost every VR6 that have a P-Flo experience this whistling. It's
from the air rushing through the air mass flow meter or the throttle body.
It's like blowing air on an empty bottle neck and you get this whoooo
whistling. Well, it's something like that. The whistling occurs only when
the throttle is partially open (slowly accelerating). At least that's what
heppens with my P-Flo. If you slam on the gas, the whistling will go away.
So, if what I mentioned is true, then I won't worry about it.
Hope I helped!
Happig@aol.com
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jul 13 19:26 PDT 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 22:12:56 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: 3.1 Litre & other VR6 gossip
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Someone up in Canada has already done a "3.1" Litre conversion on his VR6
(a Passat GLX) - apparently it has all the goodies: ABT crank & 82.5mm
forged pistons, VSR, 280 cams, modified chip (programmed by AMS), ported &
polished head with 3 angle valve job, Supersprint headers, Remus exhaust tip,
throttle body, P-Flo, etc, etc. Hasn't been dynoed yet but EC is going to do
an article on it, I believe. I've called him a couple of times but he wasn't
in so I don't know the exact details, but sounds like he's got a really great
( and expensive!) setup!
Other gossip (Disclaimer: these are rumours, not necessarily true or
accurate! Some of this info are quite a few months old, I've just been too
lazy to post them earlier):
Darrell from Techtonics has all the mods in for his exhaustive lab/dyno
testing (VSR, cams, etc) but it's going to take a while before we hear
anything - am looking forward to seeing some relatively objective
measurements of what the various mods out on the market can really offer us!
He's also working on a ported/polished cylinder head, about $2000 on an
exchange basis.
Speaking of heads, a number of shops are also offering prepared VR6 heads
on an exchange basis, including GTA of Quebec (4 angle 50/50 job) and EIP of
Maryland (bigger intake valves).
You've all heard about ND of Santa Clara's exciting oil cooler kit (sounds
simpler to install than the Neuspeed ones, about $360) and the 11.5" brake
kit (Ferrodo pads? May be rather pricey initially?) from our TurboTim here,
but did you know that ND are finishing tests on their (2.25"?) exhaust system
which features Borla mufflers with a dual tip option - makes a nice, deep but
civilized sound and will offer increased performance without sacrificing
anything from the bottom end (should be available by August/September).
Autotech, EuroSport, ABT, Oetinger and Supersprint also offer exhaust
systems, with one being currently developed by Techtonics.
Supersprint headers are finally available for the VR6 via Ron's Parts in
Vancouver, but you may have to wait a little while to get hold of yours. I
hear their exhaust system has a fake cat converter look-alike (!).
Dana from Autotech in Southern California is working on dual piston
calipers for the VR6 brakes...
NEVA will be coming out with a Carbon Fibre tie-bar and hood for the
Corrado in addition to their more cosmetic offerings. They even have a 17"
rim, flywheel and pistons in the works, though I'm not sure if carbon fibre
is the ideal material for these components, especially in street use...but
they do have some good stuff which I hope they'll research and develop for
VWs (Porsche is their main bread and butter market).
If you want your Corrado to behave a bit more like a domestic drag machine
(as much as a front wheel drive can, anyway) than a top-end Autobahn
wundercruiser, have you considered replacing your ring and pinion with one
from the European 16-valve Corrados? Of course, a taller 5th gear and Quaife
differential would help balance things out...talk to GTA, Autotech or AMS
about the ring and pinion.
Well, that's all for now - anyone heard of anything else for the Corrado
or VR6? Please tell me that the prototypical 24-valve head is finally
available or that a reliable turbo VR6 is being put together...;-)
UniqueVR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jul 13 19:24 PDT 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 22:12:51 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: VR6 throttle body
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Nick, I also talked to Velocity a while ago about boring out the throttle
body (the Neuspeed one, not the stock), they said that would leave the walls
too thin so they decided instead to make up a different, bigger one slated
for production around September. Don't know if this bigger volume throttle
body will have that much of an effect on a stock VR6 except at high rpms (may
even reduce some power lower down...), but should complement any bigger
displacement conversions nicely!
BTW, Extrudehone told me that they do not do any work on throttle bodies and
did not recommend extrude honing the VSR because of the flap between the 2
runners...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jul 13 12:40 PDT 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:33:41 -0700
From: NSnyder@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (Nick Snyder)
Subject: VR6 throttle body
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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I called Velocity today about the T-body they are making for the VR6...it
will be bigger than
the typical European ones that are on the market from the other tuners. It
will be out at the
end of summer for around $370.00 or so. It's supposed to be about 68-74mm
(i think that's what he said)
Anyway if any of you are interested call Velocity (310-643-0005) and tell
them you want to be put on
the list of VR6 owners, and they will notify you when it's completed. I
don't want to risk messing mine
up by trying to modify it myself.
NSnyder@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com
>>93 Corrado SLC<<
"Porsche performance at a VW price"
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jul 12 18:23 PDT 1995
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 17:16:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gary Andrew Yuen
Subject: Re: VR6 throttle body
In-Reply-To: <01HSSFH8DYGY001KQB@UG.EDS.COM>
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: Jan Vandenbrande
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On Wed, 12 Jul 1995, Jan Vandenbrande wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Jul 1995, Kenneth Finnegan wrote:
> >
> > > >In a message dated 95-07-11 20:08:30 EDT, you write:
> > > Abrasive flow porting (whereby abrasive material with the consistency
> > > of silly putty is forced through the passages) seems to be the current
> > > pinnacle of porting technology in terms of both effectiveness and
> > > cost.
> >
> > Is it easy to do that yourself? I've heard Extrude Hone on the VR6
> > intake manifold gives about the same results as a VSR for less than half
> > the price. If it could be a DIY thing, then I'm there.
>
> I actually looked into ExtrudeHone, and if you have actual data for
> a VR6, not for a Camaro or a Mustang, I'd like to get a copy.
> ExtrudeHone is not something you do your self. They use high powered
> pumps to press abrasive putty through your manifold.
> For a VR6 manifold it costs between 800-1000US$. Not cheap.
The only person I've talked to so far is a guy a Motronix
Motorsports in Canada. He says 20hp and 17 ft-lbs of torque. He said it
was about $1000 plus about $200 for the fuel enrichment kit that he
recommends for the job. He would be the best place to look for info, or
maybe Extrude Hone directly. I think other shops have done it also (Ed?).
Gary
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jul 17 19:07 PDT 1995
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:42:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jan Vandenbrande
Subject: Re: Questions on unproven mods...
In-Reply-To: <950716062121_115884775@aol.com>; from "HAPPIG@aol.com" at Jul 16,
95 6:21 am
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> UniqueVR6 wrote:
> >1) Is anyone familiar with the "Tornado"? This is a device with fins that
Stuff like this been around for a while...
About 15 years ago they came out with these thimbles drilled with holes
that you would drop between the manifold and the carb. It would
swirl the mixture better.
Some Euro consmumer agency checked it out and said it did nothing at best
and made things worse in the worst case.
Reason is simple...you are creating a slight restriction in your
airstream.
In carburated cars, where the manifolds are "wet" the swirl may help
fuel evaporation, but in fuel injected cars where you may be several
feet before the combustion chamber and injectors that atomize the
fuel, I cannot see how much good it would do.
> But the thing that would really improve P-Flo sound and maybe performance
> is an aluminum pipe leading from the throttle body to the mass air flow
> sensor. My cousin's 91 integra had a K&N conical filter with stock rubber
In the case of the VR6 that may actually help...I was talking to
an old "race car" maker (go karts, Baja, Formula cars, etc)
When he looked at the "harmonica style elbow" between the air mass
sensor and the intake manifold he laughed and commented that I should
start there. He suggested replacing it with a smoothly bent pipe.
One problem is that there are a bunch of other tubes hanging from that
damn thing.
Actually, if you have a look at the VR6 Golfs...that elbow is much
smoother, perhaps because it's cheaper to make but I wonder
if it'll fit and whether it would help power.
Talking of intake manifolds...ever seen one made out of a thermohardend
plastic. The whole thing is injected molded with all additional
stuff molded in. Awesome. No porting or polishing needed!
The surface finish is very good and the whole thing weighs next to
nothing. I immagine the manufacturing costs are less (because several
car makers are getting into it), but I wonder how much
the set up costs are because the machine to make them is very complex.
--
o ___|___ [\\] | Jan Vandenbrande jan@ug.eds.com
__0 /\0/ /-------\ _ | "Autoracing, mountain climbing and
\<,_ O \\ (_________) .#/_\_. | running of the bulls are sports, the
(_)/ (_) // [_] [_] |_(_)_| | rest are mere games", Hemmingway.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jul 20 20:52 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:35:57 -0400
From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bigger throttle body
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In a message dated 95-07-19 14:44:24 EDT, you write:
>Just talked to Velocity, looks like they are currently not allocating any
>time into developing a bigger bore throttle body for the VR6 due mostly to a
>perceived lack of demand and a small market! For those of you who would
like
>an alternative to the Neuspeed option, would definitely help if we were to
>show them that Corrado owners are significant if a minority in the motorcar
>community. If they get enough calls (310-643-0005, Los Angeles) expressing
an
>interest, I believe they will put some time into moving this from the design
>stage into production.
Bigger bore throttle bodies are available from us. We (ND) can get them for
$250 and they are made by ELP. They have not done one yet but will once we
send it to them. The say 3.5mm increase but we do not think thats possible.
Will have to get one sent out to them and see. They did a G-60 one and it
worked quite nice. We did not get a chance to dyno it. We will have to test
the VR6 TB and hope to do it in a while.
**TT**
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Aug 1 08:09 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 01 Aug 1995 10:56:30 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Rod Ratios
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As I sit here twiddling my fingers and impatiently waiting for the work on
my rebuilt motor to be completed, my mind fell to pondering, how much of an
adverse effect would the reduced rod ratio for this reworked engine have on
its smoothness, redline and reliability?
Let's see, the super long rods in the VR6 are supposedly one of the main
reasons why this narrow angle vee engine is so smooth, free-reving, durable
and clean in the emissions department.
According to James Sly's Jan 1995 article in EC, "Rod ratio = Connecting
rod length / Crankshaft stroke", where 1.65 is considered by many engine
builders to be the minimum desirable figure.
1) Stock VR6: Rod ratio = 1.8 (164 mm / 90.3 mm)
2) Modified VR6: Rod ratio = 1.7 (164 mm / 96.5 mm)
As illustrated above, increasing the stroke another 6.2 mm as per the ABT
crankshaft kit would decrease the rod ratio since the stock rods remain the
same length of 164 mm. This should increase torque and low end grunt, as
expected, but may it also increase emissions & piston wear, and reduce top
end revs & smoothness?
Edward
UniqueVR6
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Date: Wed, 02 Aug 1995 16:26:21 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: 3.1 Litre VR6 update #1
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Hello, people, for those of you who have expressed an interest in the
status of my ongoing 3.1 Litre project, preliminary flowbench results have
come in and I'm rather excited, so just had to share the following with you!
The 106 cfm figures I posted in an earlier message are probably not
completely accurate, but what I can reveal to you folks before anyone else
(i.e. European Car) is that my new head with the 42 mm intake valves (stock
ones are about 39.4 mm), modified intake manifold and a pair of Schrick 268
cams has a * 40% * increase in airflow over the stock VR6 head with stock
cams & manifold...
Of course we won't really know what this all means until the work on
engine is completed and it is dynoed/driven, but I'm confident that we are
(conservatively) talking about at least 240 hp for the final engine output,
with a much broader torque curve than stock!
EIP started boring the block this week, and the assembly/balancing will
take place after that. My only regret is that I don't personally get to see
all the new parts and their installation (just the $$$ appearing on my credit
card statements!) since we are doing a coast-to-coast engine swap.
Since my baby's the guinea pig for this project, most of the major kinks
should be ironed out by the time any of you feel like embarking on something
similar or exploring even more radical avenues...I'll try to share what we
learn from this first attempt at exploiting more fully the amazing potential
of the VR6 with those of you who are interested!
Cheers, :o)
Edward
"UniqueVR6@aol.com"
P.S. One of my goals for this project was to elevate SOME parameters of our
beloved Corrado's performance to Porsche 911 (non-turbo) or BMW M3 levels for
a VW-level price...
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Aug 12 09:42 PDT 1995
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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 12:34:53 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: * Dyno Results *
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Just got my car back with the ND oil cooler installed. Cool! (literally as
well as figuratively). Look out for an EC tech procedure article with
photos on this soon if you prefer to install it yourself (there's less room
on a VR6 but should be more straightforward than the Neuspeed version). Will
post results later, but initial observations is that the oil temp now runs at
least 10 to 18 degrees lower, with the biggest differences occuring when the
engine is being flogged hard and the vehicle's moving at some speed...
Oh, here are the preliminary results from the ND dyno. Haven't analysed
them properly yet, but looks like the factory airbox with a K&N filter
element makes at least as much power (actually a bit more at the low and mid
end!) as the P-flo and peaks at around 5500 rpm, but the P-flo has the
advantage higher up as it keeps going past redline. These observations of
course apply to a Corrado VR6 with the P-chip and Neuspeed throttle body
already installed...
This correlates in general with my subjective personal driving experience
- the car felt slightly less sluggish in the lower middle rpms with the K&N
in the airbox (better velocity, lower air temperatures?), but seem to open up
more eagerly around, and beyond, redline with the P-flo (better
breathing?)...
Assuming a conservative formula of Engine hp = Wheel hp * 1.25, then we
expect to see at least 200bhp for the P-Flo, P-chip & throttle body
combination. If Torque = Engine hp x 5252 / rpm, then we're getting around
205 lbs/ft at 4500 rpm.
Interestingly enough, ND's exhaust system on a stock VR6 GTI comes close
to these figures for the Neuspeed mods. I wonder what the ND exhaust and
Neuspeed combination would do for the VR6?! Comments, Tim?
As for the other dyno figures, looks like the K&N filter element delivers
more hp than the Amsoil in the top end. Also the Tornado device didn't seem
to have made much of a difference either way. On a slightly negative note, I
called the Tornado people after the dyno results to request a refund (they
supposedly have a 30 day money back guarantee), but they gave me a hard time
saying such things as "Dyno figures don't mean anything because the car is
not moving" (uh, didn't they themselves use dyno figures to "prove" their
product's effectiveness in their ads?) and "well, we have thousands of very
happy customers and the magazines rate the Tornado as being the best" (hmm,
just because some people like it doesn't mean I have to like it also,
especially if my tests & experience with hp & mpg doesn't support your
impressive claims)...
Edward
***************************************************************************
1992 Corrado VR6, w/Neuspeed P-Chip and Throttle body
(No changes in the Corrado for both dyno runs except for ND oil cooler for
8/10 and as noted below):
Ambient Temp: 74-80 F (8/10/95) Not recorded for 6/27 (cooler?)
Humidity: 77% (8/10/95) Not recorded for 6/27
Date of Dyno: 8/10/95 (K&N, Amsoil, Tornado), 6/27/94 (P-flo)
Location : New Dimensions
RPM HP HP HP HP
P-Flo K&N Amsoil Amsoil + Tornado
------ ----- ------ -------- ----------------------
3,000 81.0 83.1 83.0 83.0
3,500 99.0 103.0 101.5 102.1
4,000 123.3 122.1 124.8 122.5
4,500 138.9 140.3 139.2 139.0
5,000 148.3 152.5 151.1 151.0
5,500 155.0 159.2 156.4 156.3
6,000 156.1 158.0 156.7 156.0
6,500 160.7 n/a n/a 140.0
***************************************************************************
From UniqueVR6@aol.com Tue Aug 15 11:48 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:40:46 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: * Dyno Results * (addendum)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM, corrado-l@teleport.com
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> I am sure your note has already made it into the hands
>of Aaron, Mark and Dana, and they are ready to shoot you at the
>next opportunity they have. :->
Can't wait to be shot down! Actually I'd be quite honoured should these VW
tuner giants pay attention to someone ordinary like me ;o) As an addendum
to my * Dyno Results * post, may I add that some caution should be exercised
in their interpretation, and that we should be aware of the following:
1) Since there is often a significant variation in engine output between
cars of the same model, these test results should be interpretated as an
INDICATION only of the RELATIVE effects of the Neuspeed P-Flow vs the Factory
Airbox with a high-flow filter, on a Neuspeed throttle body & P-Chip equipped
1992 Corrado VR6 under those test conditions. No dyno measurements had been
taken of the same test car in a stock state BEFORE any of these Neuspeed
modifications were installed.
2) The factory airbox was not in a completely stock condition for the K&N
and Amsoil tests since I had removed the snorkel located in the lower front
(the one with the mesh screen filter) to improve flow. We do not have any
results here for the Neuspeed P-chip and throttle body combination with a
completely stock factory airbox & stock filter.
3) Both dyno runs were made with the same equipment (as far as I am aware
of) and at the same physical location. There were no additional modifications
to the engine between 6/27/94 and 8/10/95, other than the ND oil cooler kit
being installed before the 8/10/95 session. This in itself may have had some
impact on the readings. In addition, other parameters such as the engine
breaking in (about 13000 miles on 6/27 and 26000 on 8/10), differences in
petrol/gas and oil quality, spark plug conditions, etc may have affected the
measurements somewhat?
4) The ambient temp and humidity were not recorded for the 6/27/94 dyno
with the P-Flow, P-chip, throttle body. All I remember is that the run was
initiated at about 6:30pm, and that it was a dry and fairly mild day.
5) We look forward to Darrell's dyno results from testing the plethora of
VR6 performance enhancements currently available. Perhaps his extensive
research will pick up pace if enough of us VR6 enthusiasts will let
Techtonics know that there is a significant number of people out there who
would be very interested in seeing these results...
Edward
UniqueVR6@aol.com
From UniqueVR6@aol.com Tue Aug 15 18:48 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 21:45:02 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: * Dyno Results * (2nd addendum)
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Jan, another thing to note is that it's pretty obvious the K&N filter does
better in the horsepower department than the Amsoil above 5000 rpm, according
to the results. What these dyno figures don't show however, is that the K&N
might also let more dirt in than the Amsoil...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Aug 16 17:35 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:21:56 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Bigger VR6 throttle body
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Guess people from this list must have been calling Velocity Sport Tuning
in southern California - Jeff told me that up to 2 to 3 weeks ago, there have
only been a few inquiries re VR6 mods and so they have not given it much
priority. However, because of a recent increase in demand/interest, they
will be testing a larger VR6 throttle body with a bigger throat & plate (i.e.
not just boring out the stock or Neuspeed one) by the end of the month, size
will be from anywhere from 64mm to 70mm (stock is 64mm).
If test results look good (i.e. low end is not compromised), they will be
able to sell an unit sometime in September. The downside is that estimated
cost is a whopping $400-450! Any news re the ELP version, Tim?
Velocity also claims to have made up a set of 42mm intake and 35mm exhaust
valves for the VR6 head (stock = 40mm / 33mm?)...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Aug 18 01:22 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 01:11:28 -0700
From: lwu2@csupomona.edu (Lawrence Wu)
Subject: Canadian front spoiler
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Date sent: 18-AUG-1995
Anyone know if the Canadian Corrados have the European spoilers (the bigger
ones), or the US ones? I'm going up to Canada really soon, so I may pick one up
there.
BTW I just tried the APE chip and I really like it. It makes the engine run
smoother and the car more drivable. No pings at all.
Lawrence Wu
LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Black/Black Corrado SLC
"Quicker than a beaver, hotter than a fever"
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Aug 21 12:44 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 13:07:02 -0400
From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: VR6 exhaust
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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In a message dated 95-08-19 01:09:06 EDT, you write:
>I was wondering if anyone with the VR6 has changed their exhaust system? I
>remember Aaron at Neuspeed telling me that there would be no benefit, since
>the stock exhaust is free flowing and has a good diameter piping already.
>What
>have your experiences been?
>
>
Aaron will be testing one of our systems soon as we have them ready to ship.
We have been test fitting the twin tips for the GLX and just got started on
the G-60. Will keep you posted on results. Listed below are results from our
GTI VR6 system.
A3 Golf GTI VR6 bone stock
stock with ND exhaust only
numbers are wheel hp
3000 77.6 81.3
for engine hp x1.25
3500 95.7 100.0
4000 118.6 119.6
4500 131.8 137.9
5000 140.6 146.4
5500 144.2 153.5
6000 142.6 157.2
**TT**
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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 01:14:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Salvage yard oil cooler
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Well here's another one my money saving ideas. Early Saab 900 Turbos have
a factory add-on oil cooler that may be adaptable to our VWs. I got one
off of a friends parts car. Interestingly, it looks almost exactly like
the oil coolers pictured in NDs catalog. The adaptor looks exact, and the
cooler looks like the Mocal thats pictured also.
It looks as though for now, the stock oil to water cooler would have to
be removed for its installation. I have bolted the adaptor in place on an
8V motor I have sitting in my garage, so it will fit G60s, and since the
VR6 uses the same stock cooler, I don't see a problem with bolting it in
place on it.
Now I Know it sounds silly ( and posibly disastrous ) to be installing
used oil cooler parts, but they are off of a Saab. Saabs are well built,
and I doubt very much that they would be useing second rate parts on a
Turbo motor. I called the local dealer and i can purchae new hoses and a
T-stat for about $50. That should eliminate any worry in my head.
Tim are there any identifying marks i may be able to find on these
pieces so that I may fin out who made them? Also, the cooler measures 4
3/4 by 6 1/2, is it big enough to do the job?
Brian 93 VR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Aug 27 02:27 PDT 1995
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Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:34:36 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: *3.1 litre twin-turbo VR6*
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Just chatted with Richie - for those of you who missed an earlier post of
mine, this is the VW enthusiast up in Canada who's done things to his VR6
that would make my 3.1 project car look like a dinky econo-car in comparison!
For example:
1) First, Rich started with the Neuspeed mods (P-flo, throttle body, P-chip)
and suspension stuff. Some improvements over stock but nothing to write home
about.
2) He next added a pair of Schrick 260 cams. Not bad especially higher up
in the powerband but somehow something was still missing...
3) Then Rich popped in the VSR manifold and Schrick 268...WOW, now we're
talking! Instant useful power coming on around 3000rpm, and a soul-stirring
roar as the VSR butterfly flap spins open @ 4000rpm! He commented that this
combination was quite an eye-opener in terms of real-world performance gains.
4) Now, just for fun, let's drop in that 3.1 litre bored and stroked
engine... Whilst we're about it, why not port n' polish the Neuspeed
throttle body & cylinder head, match-porting the intake & exhaust. Hmm, how
about replacing the factory exhaust with a Supersprint system complete with
ported headers and free-flowing mufflers To harness all that power, let's
add a Quaife differential, lightened flywheel, Sachs Sports clutch and
heavy-duty pressure plate. Now, don't forget those *dual-piston* caliper
brakes, and 17" rims with the 215/40ZR17 super rubber to tame that "VR6
engine on steroids". And of course a special order to Aaron for a
custom-programmed Neuspeed chip for the whole system! The party's about to
begin...talk about gobs of creamy smooth power from the lower midrange up,
yet free-reving to 7000rpm and beyond...pretty sick, eh? (I'm drooling
already at the thought, even though I haven't sat in Rich's car - yet!)
5) Wait, that's just for starters, the best part's yet to come - in addition
to Schrick heavy-duty valve springs, VW Motorsport steel synchro rings and
other esoteric goodies, Rich is already working with Ron's Parts on a *16 psi
twin-turbo* 3.1 VR6 (possibly incorporating a Garrett T03 turbocharger) which
will use shorter Carillo connecting rods to reduce the compression ratio, and
is at the same time keeping an eye on the 24-valve prototype VR6 head which
VW announced and displayed 2 weeks ago! This 3.1 twin-turbo terror is slated
to humiliate the competition by the end of the year, if the engine doesn't
blow up (yes, the 16 psi estimate was NOT a misprint) before then!
Well, fellow enthusiasts, looks like Rich is rather serious about VR6
performance, which is really smashing! Even if most of us can not afford to
do even 10% of what he's put in his project car, it's super just dreaming and
seeing how far up on the performance ladder one could elevate the VR6 to! I
also mentioned the Corrado group to Rich, and he's definitely interested in
coming down to California sometime to talk shop with us and let us take a
look/ride (and dare I hope, drive?) in his super VR6!
Anyway, as you can see, my enthusiasm was indeed sparked and so I had to
rush-email this before I came down to earth. So, please excuse any sloppy
writing or inaccuracies on my part, it's 1:35 am but I just had to share this
with all of you...
Cheers,
Edward
UniqueVR6
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Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 14:34:49 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: *3.1 litre twin-turbo VR6*
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An addendum to my 3.1 litre VR6 post:
Richie is currently running Goodyear GS-D P225/35ZR17s, not P215/40-17s as
I had previously reported. He admits that this combination was put together
more for cosmetic reasons (pencil-thin band of rubber) than for pure
performance since the Goodyears give decent but not ultimate performance in
terms of grip. Interestingly enough, he runs 15" on the track, but switches
back to the 17" on the street.
Also his Passat GLX 3.1 litre setup has not been dynoed as yet - 300bhp
figures have been loosely quoted for his engine, but Rich is a little
skeptical of such claims. He does strongly recommend the 3.1 litre
conversion, if one could afford it, as the real-world performance gains in
acceleration throughout most of the powerband are quite significant! Also he
reports that there has been absolutely no problems in terms of reliability so
far even though he regularly pushes his VR6 extremely hard, on both the track
and street (I believe he's claimed to have hit the mid 150mph speeds). And
the engine is getting stronger each day as it breaks in more...
Edward
P.S. In case any of you have a problem with some of my writing, I apologise!
I grew up in the UK but have lived in the States longer so am not too
consistent sometimes (i.e. usage of American slang coupled with English
spellings) - please bear with me!
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Aug 28 14:10 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:58:02 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: VSR tidbits
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Some German tuner's supposed to be coming out with their (hopefully
cheaper and equally effective) version of the VSR very soon, haven't heard
anything more re the Brazilian VSR.
According to Aaron (Neuspeed), one of the reasons for the VSR's impressive
performance gains is VW Motorsport's programming of their ECU - the chip has
aggressive timing programmed in the middle rev range, and the rev limiter is
set at 7600-7700 rpm! In comparison, the P-chip extends the rev limit to
7500 rpm from the factory 7000 rpm mark...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Aug 29 09:11 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:02:16 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Bigger throttle body
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Velocity has started tests on their bigger throttle body prototype.
Initial tooling costs are high, but if the mod can net a gain of 5 hp or
more up top on a stock VR6 without losing more than 2 hp or so at the low
end, they will bring it to market.
GTA has also started research on something similar. Their version will
probably use a butterfly plate that's 4mm larger than the European one. The
main obstacle involves a clean cutting of the brass plate without causing
warping, maybe high-tech tools such as lasers are required! ;-)
Also waiting for ND to get the ELP one in for dyno testing. In addition,
quite a few other tuners are offering less radical solutions like a slight
boring out of the US or Neuspeed throttle body. Including a few people on
the list with a more cost-effective, do-it-yourself approach like our very
own Brian here, I believe...
Edward
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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:58:14 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: *3.1 litre VR6*
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For those of you who are somewhat obsessive about tweaking things and do
not like leaving a well-designed thing alone (i.e. me), looks like the 3.1
litre conversion is becoming more popular with each passing day on the
American continent!
GTA just delivered to a Jetta GLX customer in Mexico a rebuilt engine
with the ABT bigger bore/longer stroke 3.1 kit. This had a ported and
polished head, Abt (Suko) hollow 268 cams with press-fit lobes, Abt
re-programmed ECU, Abt headers. The European throttle body was used, and the
inlet manifold remained stock. Another customer of Louis will be doing a
3.0 litre (Abt crankshaft) conversion soon. Two other people on the east
coast have put down the money for a 3.1 too.
Anyone on the list contemplating going in this direction? Anyone won the
lottery lately? ;o)
Oh, I've heard rumours that Ron's Parts is tinkering with the idea of
popping a 3.1 VR6 into a rabbit. Yes, a rabbit!! Just think of power to
weight ratio!!! My only concern would be how the older chassis would cope
with all this power and how stable/reliable everything would be at 150 mph?!
Interesting concept, though.
Cheers,
Edward
P.S. Hey, I'd better get back to work...I've been spending much more time
than I really should hanging out on this list! It's just been really
educational and fun reading all the posts here on so many diverse topics, you
chaps have so much to offer from mundane everyday maintenance tips to exotic
outrageously priced conversions...I've really enjoyed being part of this
Corrado list/club! Very knowledgeable and wonderfully supportive group of
enthusiasts... I think I've seen less juvenile flaming and personal attacks
here than on all the other message boards. Which is a very good thing for me,
since I tend to get over-excited sometimes with some of the ground-breaking
news and as a result make impulsive statements/claims without verifying them
first! Well, guess I'm just learning, being new to motorcar mechanics and
all of that stuff... :)
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Aug 28 22:04 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:00:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Re: *3.1 litre twin-turbo VR6* costs
In-Reply-To: <950828165759_85475008@mail06.mail.aol.com>
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It's not to much work. Maybe an hour total. It's not hollow, but there
is a dimple. However, the ramp is thick enough to grind quite alot away
without going through. There are roller type bearings in there, but since
I'm not welding, No worries. I took mine apart and painted it so people
would know that it aint stock. You can do this without messing up the
potentiometer by mesuring its resistance with a digital multimeter (
Fluke meter ) so it can be put back to the stock setting. I would like to
dyno it.
Brian 93 VR6>
> Brian, I guess you did the porting job yourself since it didn't cost
> anything...was it a lot of work? I believe that the stock throttle body is
> hollow around that restrictive lip/ramp area, if so, did you have to use
> epoxy or something since there are seals on the bearings that may be
> heat-sensitive (i.e. not weldable)? Any dyno or timing runs after you did
> this? Please excuse any redundant or repeated questions, I seem to recall
> that there were some posts regarding this subject a while back, but I don't
> remember the exact context...
>
> Edward
>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Aug 30 15:55 PDT 1995
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id SAA05075 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:45:37 -0400
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:45:37 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Preliminary Unofficial Cam Dyno Results
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Darrell (Techtonics) is currently in the midst of his suite of tests on
VR6 performance parts, and here are some preliminary observations:
Schrick 260 - about 12hp gain @ 5500rpm (over stock).
Schrick 268 - unable to set to factory alignment, have to install in
"advanced" or "retarded" position. Will result in a boost at either the
lower end or at the top end.
ABT 268 - nice gain at the bottom, but a loss of 30hp at the top!!!
Something funny going on here...
Again, I would like to stress that these are totally unofficial preliminary
results, I don't have details of the test environment/context, and so can not
vouch for their accuracy. In fact, Darrell would probably not be too pleased
that I've "published" them here as he told me that Techtonics won't have any
results available for public consumption for another couple of weeks (I
didn't find out the above from him).
Just wanted to share the scoop with you and to let Darrell know that we in
the VR6 community support his efforts at obtaining objective measurements for
these mods. Just call the above an unsubstantiated rumour, alright?
Your roving reporter,
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Sep 14 14:35 PDT 1995
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 14:27:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: rich@amcc.com (Ricardo Higgins)
Subject: Re: SLC torque table (was Re: Optimum Shifting Point for Corrado)
In-Reply-To: <199509072056.QAA05536@hamlet.dev.cdx.mot.com>; from
"Art Barabell" at Sep 7, 95 4:56 pm
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>
> In a recent e-mail, a table of torque vs. rpm for various flavors of Corrados
> was reproduced from the archive file "VR6_Power_Upgrades". I don't know about
> the other columns, but the one for a stock SLC seems off. The table shows a
> peak of 197 ft-lbs @ 4500; yet the factory figure is a peak figure of 177
> ft-lbs. I guess we should take heed of the disclaimer which accompanied the
> table "Note that I have no idea on the accuracy (or reliability) of any of
> these measurements."
>
> Arthur Barabell
> '92 Corrado SLC
>
Hey,
I found a neat program that will compute optimum shift points, best launch
RPM. The program even has a cool simulated 1/4 race based on several current
vehicle models. You enter or modify your car specs and away it goes. To compute
shift points it does calculations and you see messages like "wheelspin" flash
across the screen.
If someone wants it I could uuencode it and post it somewhere, or mail it to
someone to put on the webpage.
Ric
'69 912
'72 Ghia
'95 Jetta GLX
This program could be used to figure optimum shift points for both modified and
unmodified Corrados.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Sep 14 20:23 PDT 1995
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:16:07 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: VR6 *rumours*
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Heard that VW decided against a turbo VR6 after their experience with the
one-off turbo Sharan that Porsche did for them (280bhp) - apparently they
experienced some major overheating probems... However, the forced induction
VR6 built in Florida appears to be running fine, Ron's Parts and Motronix are
plowing ahead with their respective turbo VR6 projects, and ND will be
working on theirs at some future point. Approaches to lowering the
compression ratio range from head spacers to custom pistons to shorter
connecting rods.
I mentioned a while ago about the 24-valve VR6 cylinder head prototype VW
was playing around with, looks like it won't ever go into production due to
cost considerations. Boohoo. Also depressing rumours have been circulating
of the VR6 being eventually phased out and replaced by a VR5...come on, VW,
first you killed the Corrado, and now the VR6??? Hopefully this is only
gossip and not reality...
Bigger displacement VR6s seem to be surfacing everywhere. To mention just
a few, a 3.1 litre GTI is being done in PA with custom titanium connecting
rods ($2300 for just the rods + balancing!) and possibly a Techtonics head:
a Jetta GLX 3.1 was done by GTA in Canada and is now flexing its muscles in
Mexico: Ron's Parts may be selling the really souped-up 3.1 they recently
installed in a Passat GLX as the customer wants to move on to a twin-turbo
3.1 crafted from a fresh block (RPI also popped a VR6 into a *Rabbit*, just
for fun!): AMS has just completed a 3.0 VR6 GTI and will be working on a 3.0
Corrado. Oh, not to forget my own 3.1 being put together by EIP... anyone
heard of any other conversions?
Cheers,
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Sep 18 02:10 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 04:58:31 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: upgrades (Part 2)
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Hmm, looks like America On-Line's internet gateway's acting up again! I've
posted several messages to the list last week which either never showed up,
or appeared to everyone on the list except for me, or had the body text cut
off...
Anyway, here's the portion that were deleted from my response to Butch's
questions on performance upgrades to his Corrado VR6...yawn, now I can
finally retire to bed...
********************************************
>Anyone in favor of
>those $250 computer chips? If so, which one is best.
I'm currently using the APS (Neuspeed) chip on my 92 VR6. Biggest
difference is the full-throttle response. The speed limiter has also been
removed, and the rev limit raised another 500rpm or so. Expect a gain from 7
to 12 hp, depending on what other mods you have installed. The Neuspeed chip
seems to be the most popular, but Autothority has its loyal following too.
The AMS version is probably one of the best custom programmed ones currently
available, though I don't have any personal experience with it. Dinan,
Superchips which claims an increase of 21 hp (rather optimistic?), and
Star*Chips in the UK also produce performance chips.
>What about a throttle body
I would consider this only after something like the P-Chip and P-Flow.
You may decide $369.95 retail is too big a price to pay for a mere 5 hp or
so of power at the top end (at the possible expense of a small power loss at
the low end), or you may look into boring out the restrictive lip yourself.
Options besides the well-known Neuspeed/European throttle-body include
custom enlarged versions from ELP/ND, Velocity, and European Import...
> Cams...?
For a stock-like idle and minimal impact on streetability and emissions,
the relatively mild Schrick 260 cams are recommended. For even more peak
power (but pushed higher up in the powerband), Schrick or ABT 268. (If you
are racing, Schrick has 276 cams available). Remember, at this point, you are
playing around with $1000+ items...
BTW, the ABTs are made by Sugo and have distinctive hollow shafts which
make them lighter and so theoretically better at very high rpms, but this may
be only a theoretical advantage as we may be talking about 8000+ rpm, the
ABTs are lighter only along the axis/centre of rotation and so have less of
an impact, and are probably not as strong as the Schricks?
>really nice but stock exhaust (I
>noticed several Leistritz stamps throughout). Is there a better one
>available?
>
The stock system is hard to beat as VW really did an outstanding job
there. I've heard the Leistritz Sports muffler advertised by some dealers
are comparable to the factory ones. Avoid some of the cheaper solutions which
replace the rear muffler with a domestic "turbo" version - louder but not
necessarily better! Another approach commonly taken is to install a
straight-through pipe in place of the mid-muffler, or even the front muffler
(resonator).
Autotech and Eurosport advertise their own custom exhaust systems, but I
would personally recommend New Dimension's forthcoming model judging by their
dyno test results. Very impressive. You may look at the Supersprint and ABT
systems too, which should be good but rather pricey...
>I would like to JUMP to 17", but what would that do to the handling? Will
they
>fit? What size tires?
>
I'm going to leave this to my better-informed colleagues as it is a whole
subject matter in itself (also I'm starting to doze off, sorry)... Check the
archives too.
Good luck in your quest for more performance!
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Sep 18 01:43 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 04:32:56 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Update on Canadian 3.1 VR6
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Ritchie (the person in Canada with the 3.1 litre Passat GLX) has already
logged a few thousand miles with his rebuilt engine, reports it's getting
looser with each passing mile, and that the torque just seem to be growing
stronger and stronger.
He hopes to dyno his setup in the next week or two, and reports he has
already posted quarter-mile track times in the 14 second bracket and 0-60
times in the low 6 sec area - remember, the Passat is quite a heavy car
especially with the custom mega-stereo system he had installed.
A little concerned with the torque steer he's getting despite the Quaife
differential, Rich is now toying with the idea of converting his car to a
Syncro version, but that will probably have to wait until the (twin) turbo
3.1 project gets underway in October.
Meanwhile, he can still enjoy the 3.1 and also his G60 Cabriolet... BTW,
they'll be firing up the *VR6 Rabbit* up at Ron's Parts today (Monday),
should be rather interesting!
> Now I
>also have put together a massive AP racing brake set-up for most VW's. The
>kit uses 4 piston racing calipers with 12" rotors with optional 2 piston
rear
>calipers
>
12" rotors, Tim? Amazing! Cost of these? (Probably even more amazing!)
Actually, believe it or not, Rich is currently looking into a set of *13.5"*
calipers for his Passat...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Sep 21 09:53 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:55:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Wu
Subject: Re: G60 Chips??
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>Hey,
>I am going to buy a new chip for my '90 G60 and Iam trying to decide which one.
>I have narrowed it down to the P-Chip from Nuspeed and the Q-chip from Autotech.
>Does anybody have a preference? Why? Should I also get the P-Flow or just a
>K&N element replacement.
>Thanks,
>CB
Although I have a VR6 instead I'll share my opinion.
I'm really happy with my Autothority chip. I've heard that the Neuspeed ones
are too mild to make any noticable difference, so I got the Autothority one.
Some people wrote about knocking problems, but I haven't experienced anything
like that yet. If anyone has a VR6 and is looking into chips, this is one I'd
recommend looking into.
As for the P-flow, I bought it and got a bigger K&N on it. I'm glad that I
bought the P-flow. I don't know if it's the sound that makes it seem more
powerful, but it does seem to get more power. It does seem to breath better
at higher RPM's. As for the bigger K&N, I think that it's more cosmetic than
performance. It fills up the big space left by that huge air filter housing.
Lawrence Wu
LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Black/Black Corrado SLC
BlackSLC@aol.com
"Quicker than a beaver, hotter than a fever"
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Sep 21 09:47 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 05:13:57 -0700
From: NSnyder@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (Nick Snyder)
Subject: Chip talk
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Some people keep saying that the Neuspeed chip isn't as noticble of a
difference, as some of the other manufactures. First off if you want
your chip done a certain way, call APS and talk to Aaron like i did.
Explain what you want and he will help you out. Aaron goes for the
highest settings he can within reason!! He doesn't do what some of the
other manufactures do, which is advance the timming WAY to high.
I am on my second APS chip because i wanted some changes to the first
which Aaron did at NO COST. The original had alot of advanced timing
all the way through the power band.....now it tapers off like it should at
the top end.
It performs much better than the first one did and my top end is MUCH
improved!! Just my 2 cents!!
NSnyder@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com
>>93 Corrado SLC<<
"Porsche performance at a VW price"
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 6 00:24 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 11:46:15 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Induction tweaks
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There were a number of posts on the list back in July/August about ways
to implement a cold air induction system after Brian's tests on his VR6 had
found that air with temps as high as 122 F were being sucked into the intake!
Has anyone come up with anything practical short of removing the passenger
side headlamps? Brian? Lawrence? Nick? Did it made a real difference?
Anyway. Motronix up in Ontario is currently offering a cold air induction
kit, I believe it comes with a 3" duct scoop that attaches to the front
spoiler (if you have a body-kit) or below the front bumper and then a 5 foot
rubber hose to go to the airbox - also the charcoal canister has to be
relocated. Apparently makes the most difference when your car is moving at
some speed.
They also are offering a larger diameter (aluminium?) mass air sensor (the
tubing that connects the airbox/P-flo to the throttle body) for more top-end
power, but recommend that the ECU be reprogrammed if this mod is to be
installed. Other mods include an extrude-honed upper & lower intake manifold
(+11hp, +15lbs torque over stock), modified airbox, 4.5 bar fuel pressure
regulator, and a larger bore throttle body with bigger butterfly flap.
Speaking of larger-bore throttle bodies, have you had a chance to test
yours for the VR6 yet, Tim? Guess you're a little backed up after Bruce's
unfortunate accident, sorry to hear about that and hope he'll recover real
soon... Also wanted to thank Joe and ND for locating those rod bearings for
my 3.1 engine so quickly, and for the Vericom loan - you guys are great!!!
Cheers,
Edward
'92 Black VR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 6 00:11 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 09:51:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Wu
Subject: Re: Induction tweaks
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> There were a number of posts on the list back in July/August about ways
>to implement a cold air induction system after Brian's tests on his VR6 had
>found that air with temps as high as 122 F were being sucked into the intake!
> Has anyone come up with anything practical short of removing the passenger
>side headlamps? Brian? Lawrence? Nick? Did it made a real difference?
I've tried so many different things. Now I have a fan with a current hungry
motor attactched to it. It's sitting right on top of the hole that used to have
the canister. The problem is that it sucks in too much dirt and it's too loud
in my opinion. I tried a strainer, but that got clogged too quickly. So in
short, still working on it.
Lawrence Wu
LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Black/Black Corrado SLC
OetCorrado@aol.com
California State Polytechnic University
Pomona, Department of Music
"Quicker than a beaver, hotter than a fever"
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:28 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 16:23:49 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Yet another 3.1!
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Yes, folks, I've just heard about another 3.1 Litre VR6 conversion, this
time in a Corrado (finally!) over in New Jersey. Looks like they threw in
every little mod that's currently available, another project car where money
was no object (like the souped up 3.1 Passat up in Canada, and the
forthcoming 3.1 GTI armed with titanium connecting rods in PA).
Details are sketchy, but this Corrado is actually done and running wild on
the road, it's an ABT-theme project with their conversion crank & piston kit,
VSR intake, 17" 3-piece forged rims, etc. Don't have any dyno figures to
share with you, but Rally Motorsports who built this beast did reportedly
commented that it was "INCREDIBLE, you won't believe how much power this
thing has until you sit in it, nothing else like it out there!".
At least I don't feel too bad about running up my credit cards despite the
various compromises taken due to financial considerations, though by the time
I'm done with my 3.1, I'd probably will have spent close to $30,000 for the
original purchase price of the car plus all the engine, transmission and
suspension mods (including labour)!!! (Wonder what other sports car I could
have bought for that kind of money?!)
Just hope the performance of my project car will not compare too
unfavourably with some of these other even more pricey highly-modified VR6s.
I know, I know, I sound like a spoilt brat complaining that I can "only"
spend $10,000 instead of $15-20,000+ on metamorphosizing my baby (I'm waiting
for those inevitable email flames)...but at least I did work somewhat
industriously and saved for over a year in planning this, not to mention
doing considerable research to educate myself on what was available and
worthwhile going for... ;o)
Cheers,
Edward
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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 15:17:30 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: EIP mods
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>Would they be doing this all for free? :)
>
>-Brian
>
We wish! I didn't previously post prices as I didn't want to do any
blatant advertising for any particular tuner, unless requested by list
members - but since you asked (and I had admittedly publicised other tuners'
innovative products and services on this list in the past):
1) VR6 A1 Rabbit $?
2) G60 A2 Golf $?
3) 2.2L 16V Tall Block $?
4) Ported & polished VR6 Intake Manifold $750 exchange
5) VR6 Throttle Body $250 exchange
6) G60 Throttle Body $350 exchange
7) Big valve ported & polished VR6 cylinder head $1595 exchange
8) True 3.1L (3104cc) VR6 conversion $4899
9) 3.0L big-bore VR6 package $2399
BTW, European Import Performance are now online through the AOL account "EIP
TUNING", however they are new to all the computer stuff and may stumble
around a bit, being relatively unfamiliar with net etiquette and such, unlike
our own (and famous) "TurboTim"...
Cheers,
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 19:20 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:30:44 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
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Status: RO
who are interested in engine tweaks, here are some
offerings from European Imports Performance in Maryland (the VW tuner who's
doing my 3.1 Corrado):
1) VR6 A1 Rabbit
2) G60 A2 Golf
3) 2.2L 16V Tall Block
4) Ported & polished VR6 Intake Manifold
5) VR6 Throttle Body (claimed 24% better flow than Euro 2.9L version)
6) G60 Throttle Body (claimed 30% better flow than stock)
7) Big valve ported & polished VR6 cylinder head (claimed 40+ hp gain over
stock when combined with EIP intake & throttle body, plus Schrick cams )
8) True 3.1L (3104cc) VR6 conversion, similar to my project car which served
as the prototype
9) 3.0L big-bore VR6 package (includes forged EIP 83mm pistons, 11:1
compression with HPCs, Raceware, Total Seal - for use with stock crank to
achieve up to a claimed 8500 rpm)
If you have questions on the above, please talk to Rich at (410) 549-1748
(tech line) or (800) 784-8100 (orders). I have no affiliations with EIP
other than being a satisfied customer.
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Oct 23 00:28 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 00:50:52 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yet another 3.1!
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Alright folks, here's more detailed info on the 3.1 Corrado in NJ. It has
the works, and more... Using the ABT 3.1 VR6 kit with the 95.6mm crankshaft
and the 92 or 92.5mm pistons as the starting block, Rally Motorsport heaped
on such goodies as the VSR with its specially programmed chip, ABT 268 cams,
ported & polished head with 18% better flow, ABT headers and a monster 70mm
(2.83") exhaust system with the middle muffler eliminated.
A special ring & pinion brings down the overall gear ratio for better
acceleration, a Quaife differential helps the application of all this power
to the wheels, and a taller 5th gear allows a theoretical top speed of 160+
mph. ABT 17" forged rims and pencil-thin Goodyear GS-D 225/35ZR17 rubber
round out this money-no-object package. The 10.8:1 compression ratio
contributes to a claimed 258 road hp as measured on the dyno (Rally
estimates that the 3.1 kit by itself bumps road hp up to about 215)! George
also mentioned that he expects this Corrado to gain another 20-30 hp after it
breaks in...
Rally has done other interesting projects such as a turbo VR6 GTi for a
customer in Antigua which ran 13lbs of boost (dynoed 305 road hp at 10lbs of
boost), and also the VW Quantum station-wagon Syncro with an Audi 5 cylinder
Turbo motor which impressed so many at the Suffern show.
Wow, that 3.1 Corrado sounds pretty incredible, it'd be interesting to see
how the EIP 3.1 project car will compare (one of the EC editors is thinking
of featuring both cars in a comparison test) with its different pistons, head
& exhaust, minus the VSR & ABT headers. However, much as I'm impressed by
Rally's claim of 258 road hp for their 3.1 motor, I have to admit that it's a
bit difficult to believe that a naturally aspirated 3.1 Litre 12-valve V6,
even if it's our beloved VR6, can deliver 322.5 engine hp (using the standard
formula of engine hp = road hp x 1.25), which would mean that it's putting
out 104 hp/litre making it more efficient than most production cars except
for possibly the Ferrari F50 and F355...maybe I heard wrong and Rally meant
258 engine hp which would seem more reasonable?!
Cheers,
Edward
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id LAA01616 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:32:46 -0400
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:32:46 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Techtonics Dyno Results
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Have heard that Darrell has made significant progress in his battery of
dyno tests on aftermarket VR6 performance modifications. Some of his results
are quite surprising, however. Here's a brief summary:
1) Schrick 260 cams - solid 12 bhp gain over stock.
2) Schrick & ABT 268 cams - only 1 hp additional gain over the 260, with
some unacceptable power losses in the lower revs! There was some confusion a
while back about whether these cams were designed properly, but now it
appears that there isn't a real problem with alignment as long as they're
installed properly with the appropiate factory tool...
3) VW Motorsports VSR - an impressive improvement of 22 to 25 lbs-ft of
torque as claimed. Wow, makes me wonder now whether I should sell my VSR or
just use it despite running enormously over budget...
4) Ported & polished cylinder head - negligible hp gains.
5) Extrude-honed Intake Manifold - negligible hp gains.
6) Sebring (?) headers - negligible hp gains.
7) Stock exhaust manifold - too restrictive in terms of how runners are
collected together.
If anyone can contact Darrell to confirm/dispel the above second-hand
rumours, or at least get more detailed info on his dyno methodology, setup &
environment, that'd be much appreciated. Nick, Jan? Techtonics' phone number
is 503 843-2700 (they're up in Oregon).
What concerns me particularly is Darrell's reported results with the 268
cams which I'm planning to put in my project car. What is the magnitude and
whereabouts in the powerband is this power loss, and why just one measly hp
gain over the 260 cams (whereas other people have stated they experienced a
noticeable improvement when switching from the 260 to 268s)? Also questions
re the negligible gains with the ported/polished head (What sort of mod was
performed? Was it a Techtonics job?) and the extrude-hone intake (Motronix
claims a dynoed gain of 11bhp)...
Cheers,
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Oct 23 20:18 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:54:11 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Schrick 268 cam hp gains/losses
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I've had no luck thus far in finding out more info on Techtonic's claims
that the Schrick & ABT 268 cams only delivers 1 more hp than the 260 cams as
measured on their dyno (with significant losses in the low end), but
according to another well-known VW tuner's dyno measurements on a GTi VR6
equipped with a P-Chip, P-Flo and Euro Throttle Body, adding in a pair of
Schrick 268 cams bumped up output by 12hp @ 6000rpm, 20hp @ 6500rpm, and a
breath-taking 28hp @ 7000rpm, with minimal effects at the bottom end!
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Nov 15 07:10 PST 1995
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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 22:56:24 -0500
From: SEKTONE@aol.com
Subject: Re: A super VSR for $750???!
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The intake manifold from EIP does not add 20% more torque it flows 20% more
air than the than the VSR. This can be great for top end but you may loose a
little torque down low. I go to EIP weekly and get to drive alot of the cars
there. The car that is being checked out by Peter Wu on 11-14-95 was just
taken out to 3 liters. This car as a 2.8 had the early version of EIP's
manifold and schrick 268 cams and easily did 150+ mph. And this was with the
early manifold that did not flow half as well as the new one. The price is
excellent and the gains are maximized with higher lift cams. I dont recomend
just doing the manifold without cams. I will let everyone know how the 3.0
works out compared to mine. I have a 93 SLC with an AMS chip, EIP T.B., and
a AMS K&N air filter unit. I also have the hard to get OETTINGER grill,
with Eibach springs and KONI shocks( which we all know dont add h.p. but
looks great).
ps. soon to get the works done on my head with bigger valves and thermal
coating, and cams. Total package is worth about 45bhp.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Nov 15 07:08 PST 1995
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 02:01:55 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: A super VSR for $750???!
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>The intake manifold from EIP does not add 20% more torque it flows 20% more
>air than the than the VSR. This can be great for top end but you may loose
a
>little torque down low.
>
Just got the above email after sending out my response to the "Super VSR"
question, but basically, ditto, nothing comes close to the VSR for that
remarkable 20hp lower-midrange kick, but once the revs get up higher, the
superior performance of the EIP version will make its mark. And I'd
reprogramme the ECU and add a wilder cam to take advantage of the increased
breathing at the higher rpms...
>The car that is being checked out by Peter Wu on 11-14-95 was just
>taken out to 3 liters. This car as a 2.8 had the early version of EIP's
>manifold and schrick 268 cams and easily did 150+ mph
>
EIP's still putting the finishing touches to the 3.0 right as I type
(spoke to them just now, it's almost 2am EST), said the engine started up
really different from stock, a really BIG, DEEP sound. The Schrick 260s have
been replaced by 268s (a 276 is being considered as this car is raced a lot),
and for now an AMS chip custom-programmed with an 8500rpm rev limiter(!) will
control all this power until the car's been properly dynoed and fine-tuned at
Autothority. Peter will get to see it tomorrow (unfortunately not broken
in), along with the 2.0L G60 and all the other neat project cars.
>soon to get the works done on my head with bigger valves and thermal
>coating, and cams. Total package is worth about 45bhp.
That's what's going into the 3.1, unfortunately my head was done a bit
earlier and so does not have quite as much flow as the current version, oh
well... You're going to love the improvements in your car!
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Nov 15 07:08 PST 1995
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 01:06:19 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: A super VSR for $750???!
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>Anybody know any gossip on the modified intake manifold made by EIP VW in
>Maryland? They have an ad on page 22 of this month's EC that claims their
>version gives 20% (!) better torque than the VSR and sells for $750 in
>exchange.
>
> VoidSpirit@aol.com
I'm still (impatiently) waiting for my copy of EC and so haven't seen
the EIP ad, but this highly modified & reworked intake has been available
since the beginning of the year, just hasn't been extensively advertised
until now. It has been steadily improved since then, and in its current
version flows at least 12% more than even the VSR...
I believe the VSR does still make quite a bit more low-midrange torque
due to its unique design, which combines high air velocity at low revs with
high air volume at the higher rpms, but the EIP intake has been demonstrated
on the flow bench to make more at the top end! On a related note, EIP
recently timed a '92 Corrado VR6 fitted with just this modified intake
manifold, Schrick 268 cams, chip and throttle-body, using a G-Tech meter
(similar to a Vericom), and got a quarter mile reading of 14.58 sec, or
0-60mph in 6.34 sec.
So it isn't a super VSR, but at $750 (exchange) vs. $2650-$3000, I'm not
exactly complaining! BTW, the EIP intake was the only acceptable
alternative to the VSR for my project car, and the price difference in
conjunction to my going over-budget was what prompted me to sell my VSR! Oh,
look out for a tech procedure article on this manifold in the forthcoming Jan
or Feb issue of EC...
>also they are offering schrick cams for about $300 less than what
>i've seen everywhere else.
That's one of the reasons why they're doing my 3.1 (plus, no sales
tax!)...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Nov 16 09:57 PST 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 09:42:10 -0800
From: Tim Hildabrand
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To: 'Corrado List'
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From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 23:05:40 -0500
Subject: Re: A super VSR for $750???!
>Do they cut the top off of the
>manifold to get at these or somthing? I would call EIP and ask, but I
>doubt they would divulge all their R&D.
>
>> I have not yet had a chance to examine one personally, but I believe
that the manifold was cut in several places. EIP did indeed spend many, many
hours in researching how to optimise air flow through it, and so it wouldn't
be reasonable to expect them to divulge their "secrets", especially as it can
be quite easily duplicated!
>> The $ (and $750 isn't too bad) we're paying is not so much for the
machining itself as for all the hard work and brainstorming efforts that went
into its design. Maybe the forthcoming EC article on this manifold will give
you an idea?
I was reading your note, Ed and my new employee Dave Jalali (from a VW dealer
in Virginia) was reading it and said he saw one of the manifolds and it was
only ported part of the way in and had not been cut. He said most of the polish
work looked like it was on the outside. He said the one's Darrell (tectonics)
did for the 4 cyl. was cut and rewelded as this is the only way to get to the inner
section without extrudehone. I asked if EIP had a dyno and he did not think so.
So maybe you can find out if the manifold by itself has been dyno tested on a
stock Corrado? Dave is a very knowlegable person and has owned 2 Corrados a G-60
and a VR6. His Corrado's were used for all of Autothority's Corrado reasearch.
He knows the VW performance business and most of the people involved. I will set
up an internet account for him and get him on the list in the future. Then maybe
he can help me out with all my E-mail.
**TT**
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Nov 16 17:08 PST 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 19:17:17 -0500
From: SEKTONE@aol.com
Subject: Re: No Subject
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I regards to Turbo Tims message about EIP's manifold, the one that Dave
Jahlali inspected was an old one. Yes it is cut an rewelded, I cant say
exactly how but it is. It was flow tested against the VSR and the stock
manifold. The early version that dave saw did not even come close to the
flow of the new manifold. The first manifold was tested on a bench and it
was dissapointing, then after several long talks with OETTINGER, they got the
specs on the OETTINGER manifold and found out most of the flow was improved
on the left hand side. EIP then went back to the bench. Thats about all I'm
allowed to tell you.
Ed Fickert
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Nov 23 14:08 PST 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 16:21:44 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: * EIP 3.0L VR6 *
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For your info, the EIP 3.0L VR6 project car (a Corrado, of course) was
finished recently and is now running around the Baltimore neighbourhood,
terrorising unsuspecting souped-up pony cars and the like.
The performance mods in this motor are very similar to my forthcoming 3.1,
except that it uses the factory crankshaft instead of the ABT longer-stroke
version, and so is able to spin much higher but with less torque lower down
(currently has an 8500rpm rev limit coded in the ECU, but that may be changed
after the dyno).
This 3.0L Corrado will be dynoed soon, with the chip custom-programmed &
fine-tuned, and I'll of course report on the results - all I know is it's
getting stronger every day even though revs have been kept low for the
initial breaking in (currently with only a few hundred miles on the engine).
Here are some details on the mods done:
1. EIP 3.0L VR6 kit w/83mm coated forged pistons, 11:1 compression ratio.
2. Fully balanced Motor and lightened Flywheel
3. EIP Big Valve / high-flow Cylinder Head
4. EIP-designed custom heavy-duty Valve Springs
5. Titanium Valve Retainers
6. Schrick 260 deg. cams (will be replaced with 268 or 276 later on)
7. Raceware rod bolts, head stud & main stud kit
8. EIP modified Intake Manifold, both upper and lower sections
9. EIP modified Throttle body
10. EIP coated synchros
11. Sachs Sport Clutch kit
12. Quaiffe Differential
Oh, and this is what Craig (the person on this list who drove my car
cross-country) said to me about the 3.0:
<< The 3.0 sounded extremely powerful. The throttle response was
phenomenal and the exhaust pressure exiting the tailpipe was
intense. As for the sound...it is loud! For the street I
would definitely desire a more conspicuous car and with this
exhaust, that car will certainly turn a few heads.
I must say that I am impressed with the layout of EIP. From
what I saw, they are true VW engine builders. Rather than
simply bolt on every Neuspeed, ABD and Autotech performance
component available to increase power, EIP designs a higher
performance motor from the block to the head to the intake
manifold. >>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Nov 22 10:38 PST 1995
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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:34:06 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: * VR6 Mods *
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(Hmm, seems like a few folks are also experiencing problems with their posts
appearing on the list - I sent the following message yesterday but it never
showed up for me, so here goes again, sorry if you've seen this already!)
**************************
Just got back from LA, heard that Velocity will be working on a *
super-light * and affordable billet crankshaft for the VR6 (see their ad in
the latest EC issue), with the tantalising option of customising the stroke
length to the customer's request, however this will not be available for
quite a while as they have to finish up their other projects first... They
are also looking for a test car (Corrado?) to install their big-body VR6
throttle body prototype for testing - any volunteers?
As for the European Car shoot on a couple of VW outfits on the East Coast,
Peter Wu commented that he was extremely impressed with EIP Tuning and their
whole operation, seems that they are doing some really interesting custom
mods for VWs (as some of us already know) and are not a mostly "off-the-shelf
parts store". The weather was incredibly bad on the day he was in Maryland,
so unfortunately he did not get a chance to really see how fast some of the
EIP project cars can be, though I did heard rumours of a 2.0L G60 A2 ripping
through the rain/snow at 90+mph... ;o)
From his brief experience sitting in the Rally Motorsport 3.1 Corrado,
Peter reported that it was very fast, though first gear gets used up
lightning-fast due to the revised final drive ratio and torque steer is a
significant problem in 1st to 3rd despite the addition of a Quaife. As
mentioned in an earlier post of mine, their 3.1 is running a compression
ratio of 10.8:1 and has all the goodies. This car will be dynoed by next
week, and I'll report on the results. Rally has also reportedly done a turbo
VR6 for a customer in Antigua who's racing the car - it runs 13lbs of boost
on a Garrett T3 unit and has an estimated engine output of 325hp (they are
thinking of trying out a Supra turbo on a VR6 next)...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Nov 21 17:50 PST 1995
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 19:51:54 -0500
From: bwhite@thepoint.net (Brian J White)
Subject: Re: New Autotech Q-Chip for VR6...
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Yep...just drop it in .....the only other mod I have is a Neuspeed P-Flo.
No downsides as of yet, but...it has been only 1 day so I cant tell mileage.
ALso...My thermostat has been acting up for the past weekend but today it
really closed up. Engine gets hot quick. So I have a new thermo..
68 bucks for a frickin thermostat!!! Gesh. Damn VR6!
Brian
>
> B-
> Just drop the sucker in? no other mods? Any downsides?
>
> -TX
> Chris 93 SLC
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: New Autotech Q-Chip for VR6...
>Author: corrado-l@teleport.com at Internet
>Date: 11/20/95 10:03 PM
>
>
>
>Well...I just recevied and installed one of those new Autotech Q-Chips that
>they are intro pricing at 99 bucks.
>
>I have never had any other experience with any other chip (cause they're
>just way to much money ) so this is not a 'comparision' of any kind....BUT.
>
>
>The thing pulls like a bastard now.....wonderful throttle response...very
>jumpy! I think it was worth 100 bucks. The only pain about installation
>it trying to get that damn ECU out of the weird ass place VW decided to put
>it.
>
>Anyway...I would recommend this chip to anyone who wants a little mmph out
>of their VR6 but who just doesnt think a chip is worth 250-300 bucks.....or
>who wanna prep their cars for whatever they see fit...very nice job Autotech...
>
>Brian
>
>
>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Nov 21 02:21 PST 1995
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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 15:39:11 -0500 (EST)
From: rbeaudette@state.ma.us
Subject: ...no subject...
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Just thought I would pass along this little tidbit. Brian Jowett graciously
provided his services in grinding out my throttle body (thanks alot Brian!).
Now that I have seen what he has done, I can say it is a pretty simple
modification if you have a grinder handy.
This is really worth the effort. Before, my Corrado would bog down a bit if
the shifts were in the low rpm range (necessary now that winter and cold
engines are here). It was very annoying and I attributed it to poor driving
on my part. I am sure that there is plenty of that left, but the modified
throttle body has virtually eliminated this hesitation. The car really feels
like it wants to accelerate now. I even noticed an improvement in gas
mileage on the (long) trip home, maybe about 1 to 1.5 mpg (sounds too good
though).
I can't say as the modification is worth the price of a new throttle body.
But if you can find someone with access to air tools, it is worth your time.
Cheers,
Roland 93 SLC (looking at an Autotech chip for x-mas)
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Nov 18 01:55 PST 1995
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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 12:52:46 -0800
From: Tim Hildabrand
Subject: ND Exhaust dyno figures for VR6
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Here are correct (4 different cars tested) figures for our exhaust =
systems. The ones we got on our first test with the great numbers did =
not verify and I kick myself for posting them till we did more test. =
Well now that we did do more test we have more accurate data. There is =
still more to do more and from looking at the test our system works =
better with the throttle body,chip and K&N. We may be able to find more =
power but it may be at the cost of more noise and some bottom end. So =
for now this is the set-up. Both of these are A3 VR6 models. We will get =
around to the Corrado in the future as I will not (anymore) promise =
dates since we have been so busy and projects are getting delayed.=20
All results are WHEEL HP not engine HP.
Stock GTI VR6 with ND exhaust GLX =
with TB/Chip/P-flow with NDexhaust
3000 86.2 88.2 =
86.9 89.5
3500 110.0 111.0 =
106.9 110.7
4000 131.2 132.4 =
131.8 135.1
4500 144.0 150.3 =
151.4 153.7
5000 155.2 161.6 =
164.1 164.4
5500 159.5 164.6 =
170.7 173.6
6000 162.4 167.8 =
167.4 174.5
6500 N/A N/A =
156.0 157.6
I will post more as we do more test. All above figures are adjusted for =
temp-humidity and bar/pres.
We will have Aaron at Neuspeed work on a chip for the system as we may =
find more power that way also.
**TT**
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Nov 21 17:01 PST 1995
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:18:24 +0000
From: cgade@hallam.com
Subject: Re: New Autotech Q-Chip for VR6...
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B-
Just drop the sucker in? no other mods? Any downsides?
-TX
Chris 93 SLC
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: New Autotech Q-Chip for VR6...
Author: corrado-l@teleport.com at Internet
Date: 11/20/95 10:03 PM
Well...I just recevied and installed one of those new Autotech Q-Chips that
they are intro pricing at 99 bucks.
I have never had any other experience with any other chip (cause they're
just way to much money ) so this is not a 'comparision' of any kind....BUT.
The thing pulls like a bastard now.....wonderful throttle response...very
jumpy! I think it was worth 100 bucks. The only pain about installation
it trying to get that damn ECU out of the weird ass place VW decided to put
it.
Anyway...I would recommend this chip to anyone who wants a little mmph out
of their VR6 but who just doesnt think a chip is worth 250-300 bucks.....or
who wanna prep their cars for whatever they see fit...very nice job Autotech...
Brian
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Nov 30 01:09 PST 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 03:27:15 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Rally's 3.1L Corrado dynoed
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First of all, I'd like to apologise to everyone on the list about the
multiple postings of my message re the 16" setup (but thanks for posting it,
Nick), my email to the list wasn't showing up and I was getting
frustrated...in fact, my posts re selling the wheels/tyres have not as yet
shown up for me, though I've received some flak from a couple of people about
repeating myself, so I assume everyone else has received these messages!
Anyway, Rally's 3.1 ABT-based Corrado has finally been chassis dynoed. I
do not yet have official figures (you may have to wait for the EC article for
that), or detailed info on its mileage, where it was dynoed and what the
actual road hp for each rpm range is - but the preliminary reading is a max
of 256 engine hp @ 6000rpm and 249 lbs-ft of torque peaking @ 4800rpm
(calculated using some unknown formula from the original, unknown, road hp
measurements). Oh, here's what another person emailed me about this 3.1:
<< No,. I can't say i ever got to ride in their Corrado,. but i think i
remember my friend bragging abot taking a ride in it,. although I don't know
how well I can believe it.. I did although look at it for a while, it is an
impressive machine. I did hear the car fire,. and whale off down the streets
of Northern NJ,. and it WAS impressive! I was over at Rally with a friend of
mine who had his Jetta GLi worked on there,. first when i was looking for a
car,. and then just recently to see what they could do for my 8v GTi (which i
bought elsewhere. Everything they had to sell was way out of what i was
looking to spend.) The Corrado's allways there,. actually I think the owner
was using it to get back and forth to and from work once and a while. Hey i
wouldn't mind. I'm curious however to check out EIP Tuning, I also hear that
they're working on a 2.2L 16v, wow! Rally Motorsports is a good place,. and
the guy who does most the work really knows his shit,. but I havn't seen too
many projects there in comparison to EIP. >>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Dec 9 23:04 PST 1995
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Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 15:17:09 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: 3.0 & 3.1 VR6 update
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>Do you know the difference between the Schrick 260 and 268?
>Who makes a 276?
IMHO. Faroodi, the Schrick 260 is highly recommended for the 2.8L VR6 in a
street application if you've decided to go the camshaft route - the idle is
stock-like and you'll get a useful 10 to 12 hp bump in the 6000-6500rpm
range. If you want to go for a "wilder" cam, the 268 could give you as much
as an extra 20hp over stock, but this peak comes higher up, in the
6800-7500rpm area, and at the expense of some low-mid end torque. The 276,
also made by Schrick, is even more radical, and is really designed for race
applications where your VR6 has been modified to be capable of going (and
indeed perform best) above the factory redline...the power will be pushed
really high up, and the idle will be quite lumpy (some people might love that
"race car" burble however!).
But if you bump up the displacement of your VR6 (as in the 3.0 or 3.1
conversion), you can probably use a wilder cam than the 260 (even in a street
application) so as to take advantage of the larger engine without as much of
a penalty. I'll leave an explanation of cam duration, lift, lobe angle,
overlap, etc to the technical experts out here... Another thing to consider
is that installation of these cams will affect your warranty, and the
Schricks and ABT cams do not have a carb exempt # (yet) and so are not legal
in California (they will also increase emissions, but since the VR6 is a very
clean engine to start with, there shouldn't be a major problem passing
inspection)... Hope that helps somewhat!
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Dec 10 09:42 PST 1995
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Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 09:56:02 -0500
From: SEKTONE@aol.com
Subject: EIP 3.0 LITER INFO
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Last saturday night I was out at the local car hang out to see what was up
with EIP's new 3.0 liter kit. Steve shows up ( employee and owner of the 3
liter), and finally a race is hooked up. The car that he went up against was
a 92 SLC with a Eurosport exhaust. Steve gave him a full car start and by
the end of the 1/4 mile was about 4 cars ahead, and this was with backing off
the throttle a few time to taunt him!!!! Also the car was run at the track
and his E.T. was 14.6 on the first run. The car was running rough all of
this time and when it was inspected it was found that he had all of this
performance on only FIVE OF HIS CYLINDERS. This car was that fast and it
only had been running on five cylinders. It is now getting fixed and they
are putting in wilder cams to make it even sicker. est. of 14.0-13.9. are
expected.
I'll keep you posted.
ED FICKERT
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Dec 12 14:16 PST 1995
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Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 13:15:01 TZ
From: Scott McAlear (RhoTech)
Subject: Re: vr6 cams
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Talking to Shawn at Ron's Parts he has said the opposite; 260's are
really the only way to go. Much smoother & more driveable.
Scott
----------
| From: Brian J White
| To:
| Subject: Re: vr6 cams
| Date: Tuesday, December 12, 1995 2:18PM
|
|
| What is 'silly' about the 260....just dont get the bang for buck or what???
|
| B
|
| >However, other sources, e.g., EIP and Ron's, have implied that the 260
| >is silly and that the 268 is the one to go for.
|
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Dec 13 23:06 PST 1995
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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:47:22 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: EIP 3.0 LITER INFO
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>This car was that fast and it
>only had been running on five cylinders. It is now getting fixed and they
>are putting in wilder cams to make it even sicker. est. of 14.0-13.9. are
>expected.
I hear that the limited production 276 cams should be installed in the 3.0
Corrado by this weekend. Prior to this modification, the C, sporting the
Schrick 260s, had hit a tad over 7000rpm (quite comfortably) several times on
the belt parkways, which would translate to the 155mph region with the US
gearing! The 260s reportedly pulled strongly from as low as 4000rpm, but
tended to top out in the low 6k revs, hence their replacement with the rather
radical 276 cams. Expect to see this Corrado competing at the Battle of the
Imports or equivalent events once it manages to achieve sub-14 second 1/4
mile times...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Dec 13 08:39 PST 1995
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:27:27 +0000
From: Tim at ND
Subject: VR6 cams
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Status: RO
Faroodi says:
>Do you know the difference between the Schrick 260 and 268?
>Who makes a 276?
Edward replies:
IMHO. Faroodi, the Schrick 260 is highly recommended for the 2.8L
VR6 in a
street application if you've decided to go the camshaft route - the
idle is stock-like and you'll get a useful 10 to 12 hp bump in the
6000-6500rpm range. If you want to go for a "wilder" cam, the 268
could give you as much as an extra 20hp over stock, but this peak
comes higher up, in the 6800-7500rpm area, and at the expense of some
low-mid end torque. The 276, also made by Schrick, is even more
radical, and is really designed for race applications where your VR6
has been modified to be capable of going (and indeed perform best)
above the factory redline...the power will be pushed really high up,
and the idle will be quite lumpy (some people might love that "race
car" burble however!). Another thing to consider is that installation
of these cams will affect your warranty, and the Schricks and ABT cams
do not have a carb exempt # (yet) and so are not legal in California
(they will also increase emissions, but since the VR6 is a very clean
engine to start with, there shouldn't be a major problem passing
inspection)... Hope that helps somewhat!
Tim says:
I would not recommend the 268 or the 276 for anyone who will have to
have their Corrado pass smog. While you may get away with the 260 the
other two may have a hard time passing the smog test that will be
coming to all 50 states not just California. I personally do not like
cars with(wild cams) lumpy idle's as they usually are putting out high
emmissions and lose too much bottom end for the extra hp at high rpm.
Ed I am not sure how you will get your Corrado to pass smog but this
is something everyone needs to be concerned about for the future. I am
glad to finally see almost no articles on dual carb conversions
anymore as everytime E-car ran one we would get a bunch of calls from
readers who want to do this to there VW. After explaining that fuel
injection is far superior and all the other negatives of carbs
including not being smog legal they start to understand. Our philosphy
at ND is smog legal hp not something you will be sorry for later. Sure
we miss out on sales of all the illegal stuff like cams, headers,
etc... And we have to turn many jobs down because the stuff the
customers wants us to install is not legal. I have a responsibility to
my customers and employees to stay in business and do not believe the
risk is worth it. Eurosport in LA was busted a few years ago and they
got lucky and survived all the penalties and fines.
**TT**
turbotim@newdimensions.com
http://www.newdimensions.com
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Dec 12 21:36 PST 1995
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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 00:01:02 -0500
From: EIPTUNING@aol.com
Subject: Re: New EC, VR6 syncro, Motor Technik add
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No sour grapes or anything but NO ONE from any company other than EIP is
responsible for the EIP TUNING VR6 big valve head. The valves are actually
custom built to our specs by a performance valve manufacturer. The thermal
barrier coating ( as well as all other HPC's ) are applied by a performance
coating company that specializes in this technology.
Sorry SEKTONE, you've been very misinformed!
------------------> Rich <--------------------
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Jan 2 20:49 PST 1996
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Date: Tue, 02 Jan 1996 23:01:08 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Finally!...3.0L VR6!!
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Well, I couldn't hold off any longer, and so am posting a message that EIP
had put up on the Car & Driver Message Forums on America On-Line over the
weekend about their 3.0L project car. I'm doing this without prior consent
from EIP (and to make things worse, with some hasty, minor editing!), so
sorry, Rich, I just had to share this information ASAP, hope you won't mind
and please don't detune a few hps from my 3.1 in retaliation...
Cheers,
Edward
******************************************************************************
******
Subj: Finally!...3.0L VR6!!
Date: 95-12-30 23:05:24 EST
From: EIP TUNING
Just thought I'd drop a quick note about our completed 3.0L shop project. We
have been tearing down and re-assembling this particular VR6 motor for
several months now to track wear and break in patterns of our newly designed
3.0L kit. Through this comprehensive and exhaustive process, we have been
able to make several important modifications to the kit to ensure trouble
free performance, in addition to extracting the best possible power from our
motor / kits.
The completed 3.0L has definitely met and exceeded our original goals.
Far more than just putting together a kit such as ABT's, we have developed a
complete motor that delivers some rather impressive power even at such an
early stage. We had initially expected a considerable loss of low end torque
since we decided to use Schricks rare and rather radical 276 degrees cam set.
The beauty is, due to the 3.0L's much improved power (thanks to its 11:1
compression ratio and 83mm pistons etc.), the car pulls stronger than any
stock or modified 2.8L VR6 I've driven, even at 2000-3000 rpm. The motor
starts pulling hard above 4000 and gets much stronger above 5500 rpm. We have
just put it together in its current configuration, and have not as yet spin
it past 6500 rpm, due to our belief in a somewhat "gentle" break in period
(1000 miles or so). By the way, the motor is quite capable of doing over 8000
rpm.
We had the opportunity to run against a Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo last
night, well even when short shifting at 6K we ran away from him from 60 mph
onwards till we let off at about 120mph. We put at least ten car lengths on
him to that speed, and the 3.0L only starts getting mean at above 100mph. We
would have really hurt his pride if we would have been shifting in the power
band!
We also ran the 3.0L against one of our fastest VR6 products, a
heavily-modified Golf A2 with a 2.8L VR6 incorporating our big valve ported &
polished head, wilder cams, EIP custom modified throttle body and intake
manifold, programmed chip, etc. (our customer has also added a 6-line, 100hp
NOS system just in case!). This Golf has run better than 13.8 sec in a
quarter mile running on 17" wheels (13.2s or better should be possible with
15" wheels and sticky tires). To come to the point, the 3.0L Corrado pulls
harder shifting at 6k than the Golf (off the bottle of course) shifting well
into its power band at about 7200 rpm! Should be fun in a week or so when
the Corrado is finally broken in...
Dyno results will be available soon. I'll report more fun later.
--------------------> RICH !! <----------------------
******************************************************************************
******
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Jan 6 19:58 PST 1996
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Date: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 22:21:13 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: EC article on Rally's 3.1 Corrado
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Just chatted with Peter Wu about his article in European Car on the Rally
3.1 ABT Corrado, and his response to my questions about a couple of things in
that article was as follows:
1) Loss of low-end torque below 3000 rpm - this was felt rather than
measured, and Peter attributes it to all the porting & polishing that was
performed (as well as the wilder cams) which increases air volume and
therefore flow at high rpms, but at the expense of air velocity in the lower
revs. Another culprit may have been the modified exhaust system which may
have had a straight-thru pipe thru the catalytic converter, thus not
generating enough back pressure. Peter noted that he has never driven/sat in
a modified VR6 that did not exhibit some losses in the low end relative to
stock...
2) The 168mph @ 6200rpm claim - Peter mentioned that this figure was
supplied to him by George and was apparently derived from some computer
charts Rally had.
I could not get hold of George this weekend, but will try to talk to him
soon. Meanwhile, let's not make any hasty assumptions or judgements until we
have contacted all the parties involved and get their
feedback/explanations...
Your roving reporter,
Edward
P.S. By the way, the photo shoot of that red C. almost didn't come about as
Peter was initially chased away by a security guard...
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jan 5 23:14 PST 1996
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Date: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 01:37:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Re: EIP CORRADO IN EC
In-Reply-To: <960106010529_84678057@mail06.mail.aol.com>
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The reason the car lost low end is because of the cams. I have a friend
who lives in Manhatan, and goes out to Rally Motorsports on occasion. He was
lucky enough to get a ride in this car. He said that it did feel a little
weeker down low, but once it came on cam (3500-4000rpm) hold the f... on!
He also said it was the stiffest car he ever rode in. He runs Nuespeed
race springs and sport Bilsteins in his Jetta GLX.
Brian 93 VR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jan 5 22:49 PST 1996
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Date: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 01:05:30 -0500
From: SEKTONE@aol.com
Subject: EIP CORRADO IN EC
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To all of the great corrado owners on the list. The car featured in the new
issue of EC is not from EIP it is from Rally Motorsports, in New Jersey. The
EIP car will be featured later on in the year when it is dynoed, and timed at
the track. This will lead to an article that is TRUTHFULL AND RELIABLE. The
car from Rally is a 3.1, while the one from EIP is a 3.0. With all of the
extensive headwork and bigger valves plus other mods I think the world is in
for a shock when you see the hp figures for the 3.0. Dont be suprised when
it is higher than the 3.1. Peter Wu is a great guy but I think the guys at
rally slipped him a mickie in his drinks. How can you loose bottom end while
increasing displacement. Also how can that car do 168mph with the final
drive of a 16v corrado? It would actually lower top speed, while increasing
accelaration. 168mph could be done with the stock VR6 final drive though.
One more point to be made, the only reason that car beat an M3 was that it
had the factory rev limiter on it, I belive it is around 137mph? I can do
more than that and my cams are not in yet.
Just thought you should know, Ed F.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jan 5 22:01 PST 1996
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Date: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 00:04:47 +0000
From: bad90g@epix.net
Subject: Re: EPI VR6 in EC magazine
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> From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:50:52 -0500
> To: corrado-l@teleport.com
> Subject: Re: EPI VR6 in EC magazine
> Reply-to: corrado-l@teleport.com
> My only question about the article is as follows: "...changed the final
> drive ratio from 3.65 to 3.94 by using the final drive gear from a 2.0 16V
> Corrado. Computer gear charts project 168mph in fifth gear at 6200 rpm" -
> according to the calculations I had posted before based on the formula that
> Karl had supplied, this final drive ratio change will actually decrease top
> speed to about 130mph at 6200rpm using the standard US 5th gear (0.84), and
> 150mph using the rather radical 0.72 ratio 5th gear. So, is Karl's formula
> or EC's computer charts to blame for this apparent discrepancy?
>
> Edward
>
>
EC is wrong. The top speed would be lowered by the following final
drive modification. Can the EIP VR6 be revved beyond factory
redline? If so, this could explain the discrepancy. By my
calculations, the engine would have to be able to rev to approx.
8000 rpm. The top speed with a 3.94 final drive, 0.838 5th gear,
and 225/40/16's @ 8000 rpm would be 166.44 mph. Maybe EC meant to
say 168 mph at 8000 rpm :-)
225/40/16, 3.647-FD, 0.838-5th @ 6200 = 139.35 mph
225/40/16, 3.94-FD, 0.838-5th @ 6200 = 128.99 mph
225/40/16, 3.647-FD, 0.72-5th @ 6200 = 162.19 mph
225/40/16, 3.94-FD, 0.72-5th @ 6200 = 150.13 mph
Matt Heffner
'90 Pearl Blue G60
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jan 5 19:16 PST 1996
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Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 21:50:52 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: EPI VR6 in EC magazine
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Well, I finally received my copy of the Jan '96 issue of European Car
about 15 minutes ago, and after quickly browsing through the various stuff
(there's a tech feature on installing the Quaife in a G60, a letter about the
SLC in endurance racing, Velocity's 245hp turbo A2 GTi, and features on the
911S & 240hp 318ti S3 3.0, etc), turned straight to the "Beast from the East"
article on page 128 that Karl/Voidspirit had mentioned about. This is
actually the Rally Motorsports' ABT Corrado ("with all the goodies thrown
in") that I had referred to on several occasions in the past, not EIP's
version.
My first impression? Definitely was exciting reading about all the mods
they threw into that car, and it sure looks sharp and mean! Finally we get to
read about a highly-modified C and about its thrilling performance!. Would
probably have enjoyed the article even more if there had been some additional
data included such as the 3.1's hp & torque curve and some timing runs...
Anyway I look forward to seeing how my project car will turn out relative
to this beast, should be a really interesting comparison. Basically my C.
won't enjoy the benefits of a VSR or ABT headers (my bank account will be
grateful for that fact though ), or look as flashy from the Oettinger body
kit/Zender wing/ABT wheels (again $$ savings!), but I have the utmost
confidence that EIP's unique big-valve head and true 3.1L pistons (83mm vs
ABT's 82.01mm) will more than make up for that apparent deficit...
My only question about the article is as follows: "...changed the final
drive ratio from 3.65 to 3.94 by using the final drive gear from a 2.0 16V
Corrado. Computer gear charts project 168mph in fifth gear at 6200 rpm" -
according to the calculations I had posted before based on the formula that
Karl had supplied, this final drive ratio change will actually decrease top
speed to about 130mph at 6200rpm using the standard US 5th gear (0.84), and
150mph using the rather radical 0.72 ratio 5th gear. So, is Karl's formula
or EC's computer charts to blame for this apparent discrepancy?
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Jan 6 00:07 PST 1996
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Date: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 02:19:01 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rally's 3.1 Corrado in EC
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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>The reason the car lost low end is because of the cams. I have a friend
>who lives in Manhatan, and goes out to Rally Motorsports on occasion. He was
>lucky enough to get a ride in this car. He said that it did feel a little
>weeker down low, but once it came on cam (3500-4000rpm) hold the f... on!
I think a chart of the 3.1's hp curve vs rpm, as measured on the dyno,
should resolve this question properly. On the one hand, we have EC and
Brian's friend reporting that Rally's 3.1 felt weaker down there from
personal experience, but then Sektone, VoidSpirit, Karl and I all seem to
feel that, in theory at any rate, this 3.1 should have a better bottom end
than a stock 2.8 (despite the wilder cams) since it has a longer stroke
crank, bigger displacement (from larger pistons and longer crank stroke), and
the VSR in addition to the revised gearing, all of which should translate to
better low-end grunt!
If I get time tomorrow (go Niners!), I'll try to talk to George from Rally
and Peter Wu from EC about this issue, plus the 168mph @ 6200rpm claim in the
article...
Cheers,
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jan 12 12:42 PST 1996
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:16:14 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: GTA's 2.9L VR6
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com
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For those power-hungry enthusiasts who may be interested, here 's=
some
info on a modified 2.9L VR6 project car that was recently completed b=
y the
GTA folks (Georges, Louis) up in Quebec. This was supplied to me by =
Frank
who apparently talked to GTA directly, so I can not vouch for the acc=
uracy of
this report (Frank's first language is French so please excuse any sp=
elling &
grammatical errors).=20
BTW, I haven't checked in with Richie up in Vancouver for a while=
now
about how his 3.1 Passat is doing, and whether it's well on its way t=
o
twin-turbodom - those international phone calls are not cheap! But w=
ill
update you all later...
************************************************
The car is from US, w/cat, and he=92s going to England not far from n=
ow.
-2.8L VR6 modified up to 2.9L
-All stuff balanced
-VSR with VW MOTORSPORTS chip
-GTA head (ported and polished, 3 or 4 angle job, 50/50)
-Suko hollow 268 cams (ABT)
-Schrick HD valve springs
-Titanium valve retainers
-German T-Body and P-Flow
-ABT headers
-Remus square muffler, but he=92s now changing for AutoTech 3=BE - 4 =
inchs round
stainless=20
muffler.=20
-AutoTech rear upper-stut bar (No huge Neuspeed inside-rear double tr=
iangles
bars)
-Oettinger front upper-strut bar (great styling and doesn't touch any=
thing)
-No sway bars - they are not necessary on that car if you have the su=
spension
and another little thing
-Eibach GERMAN springs, not US ones
-Bilstein shocks
-Neuspeed short shift kit (works really well, about CAN$450/US$380)
-Stock gear ratio
-No limited slip diff at the moment (that's next)
-205/40/17 tires
-Awsome sound system (maybe he had it before)
-Power: 260hp
-Torque: 240-250lbs-ft
-this is estimated power, with infos giving by guys in Europe, where =
lots of
Cs have been modified like=20
that. They said that if you put this, and this, and this mod, it=92ll=
give X
hp. There=92s 10% of possible=20
errors. He said it=92s not really necessary to check on dyno. The hp =
and torque
is developed at=20
around 6200rpm.=20
-RPM is in lower revs and he can't go really high, cuz maybe the engi=
ne could
have problems, due to the=20
lesser thickness of the Canada 2.8 chambers compared to the Euro 2.9=
.
Georges Grisanti said that the Euro 2.9 engine block is THICKER & STR=
ONGER
than the US 2.8 motor,=20
so can tough longer and is a bit more powerful, and you can see the
difference when driving it...
-It's winter, so couldn't check the acceleration time
The guy puts up to CAN$12,000/US$8,825 only on the engine, exhaust an=
d
shifter, including the=20
installation, W/O the VSR!!! Cuz the guy already had the VSR...
Of course, you must also add the cost of the shocks/springs, tires/ri=
ms,
stereo and bars. The total is... a lot...
With everything, maybe more expensive than your 3.1!
I'll try to talk with the guy this summer... for fun... and sound... =
;-)
Georges said that you have to be careful if you put 215 or 225, or 17=
, cuz if
you overload the=20
back, with a stereo and/or passengers, maybe it could rub on the fend=
ers and
the bumpers...
Rabbit GTI 180hp, great uh? From GTA.
1992 GTI 16V, 250hp... from GTA again... they're great, for tuners in=
=20
Quebec... But I'm sure EIP can do better... I think... anyway...
Hey! How come that Rally 3.1 VSR has ONLY 256hp, and GTA's 2.9 VSR ha=
s more
power at 260hp?? Strange... really...
************************************************
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jan 15 22:50 PST 1996
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Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:09:57 -0800 (PST)
From: rich@amcc.com (Ricardo Higgins)
Subject: Chip Warning
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com (Corrado list)
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Status: RO
In Nov. I bought a Autotech chip for my VR6. I had to hastle
with them because they didn't want to believe my chip was socketed
from the factory. The price was so good I put up with this.
Fri. night the car didn't want to start, three tries with long cranking
and it finaly caught. The car ran very rough, but it ran. On the drive home
the car idled rough but it seemed to have power under loadOn the
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jan 18 00:20 PST 1996
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:28:59 -0500
From: bwhite@thepoint.net (Brian J White)
Subject: Re: Chip Warning
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Status: RO
I have the Autotech chip as well..and have never had a problem with it. I
have also been really pleased with its result. The car never takes twice
to start now..starts first try. And the throttle response and quickness of
the speed is impressive. I would really be curious to try the Neuspeed
and/or Autothority chips though.
Anyway...why didnt Autotech wanna beleive that your ECU was socketted??
What year VR6 and what kind of box did it have?? I was my impression that
ALL Corrados have socketted chips and that VW didnt start soldering until
the later in the A3 Golf/Jetta series (i.e. if you have a 1994 Golf chances
are that the ECU has a socket, but if you have a 1996 car, chances are that
it is soldered.)
Brian
>In Nov. I bought a Autotech chip for my VR6. I had to hastle
>with them because they didn't want to believe my chip was socketed
>from the factory. The price was so good I put up with this.
>
>Fri. night the car didn't want to start, three tries with long cranking
>and it finaly caught. The car ran very rough, but it ran. On the drive home
>the car idled rough but it seemed to have power under loadOn the
>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jan 18 02:34 PST 1996
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:07:29 -0800 (PST)
From: rich@amcc.com (Ricardo Higgins)
Subject: RE: Chip Warning
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com (Corrado list)
Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com
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Status: RO
In Nov. I bought a Autotech chip for my VR6. I had to hastle
with them because they didn't want to believe my chip was socketed
from the factory. The price was so good I put up with this.
Fri. night the car didn't want to start, three tries with long cranking
and it finally caught. The car ran very rough, but it ran. On the drive home
the car idled rough but it seemed to have power under load. I live about
5 miles from work, midway the check engine light came on. For two days
this persisted I finally got smart and swapped the factory chip back in.
The car initially started hard but all problems were gone after the first
mile or so.
Autotech told me to mail the chip back and they'd check it out. I'll be
putting in the mail sometime this week and I'll keep you all posted.
Ric
PS sorry my previous post got cut off.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jan 19 01:52 PST 1996
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Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 04:13:29 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: 300 HP VR6 debate (long)
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com
Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com
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Hi all,
I just came across the following thread on America On-Line's Car & Dr=
iver
message forums, and thought it might be of interest to some of us (as=
long as
it doesn't lead to the emotional debate that the recently-departed Ma=
rk's
messages provoked!)...
Cheers,
Edward
92 VR6 (soon to become a 3.1L, one of these days...)
*******************************************************
Subj: Re:16V-Syncro conversion
Date: 96-01-09 09:21:33 EST
=46rom: Rowdy Rat =20
Actually, it's a case of having more horsepower than available tracti=
on.
With currently available modifications, the VR6 (I know the original=
post
was about a 16v car, but I'm more concerned with the VR6) is currentl=
y
capable of putting out over 300 horsepower (and I've heard rumors of =
turbo
VR6s near 400 horsepower). The front wheel drive layout of the curre=
nt
Volkswagen is unable to cope with these horsepower levels and the mos=
t
efficient way to correct this is to put the power down through all fo=
ur
wheels. I agree that the Syncro system with its viscous coupling rea=
r
differential may not be the most durable choice, but it should live o=
n the
street.
Show me a way to get that much power to the ground with FWD and I'll =
forget
about AWD.
*******************************************************
Subj: Re:16V-Syncro conversion
Date: 96-01-09 11:00:07 EST
=46rom: RACEWARE1 =20
Maybe I missed a message along the way, but I haven't seen any REAl T=
urbo'ed
VR6 engines at 300-400 HP. Porsche did a Turbo deal for the Sharan Va=
n for
last years Frankfurt Auto Show and it was 252 PS. I'm not saying it's
impossible to obtain 300 HP with enough boost and intercooling, but 4=
00 HP is
highly improbable for "street" use. For racing, it may be possible wi=
th a lot
of rework, but there are limits. By the way, don't believe everything=
you
read in the hot rod magazines or parts catalogs. There's a lot of B.S=
. out
there from people trying to get at your wallet...
Regards,
Randy
*******************************************************
Subj: Syncro conversion / 300+ HP
Date: 96-01-10 09:15:50 EST
=46rom: Rowdy Rat =20
Let me fill you in on where I was headed Randy...
First off the possibility of a streetable 300+ horsepower VR6 is a re=
ality.
EIP Tuning has been working on a couple of naturally aspirated VR6s =
(3.0
liter and 3.1 liter) that should be right at the 300 horsepower mark =
- I am
told that dyno testing is currently being completed. Ron=92s Parts h=
as also
been busy with a turbocharged 3.1 liter VR6 with about 350 horsepower=
. A
turbocharged VR6 engine should be good for about 150 horsepower per l=
iter and
still remain drivable on a regular basis - that should put you at abo=
ut 450
horsepower. I don=92t really see any major problems, but durability =
becomes a
question with any modified engine. In any case 250 horsepower seems =
to be
about the limit for FWD Volkswagens; after that you get severe torque=
steer
and the first several gears become virtually useless as a result of w=
eight
transfer away from the drive wheels (wheelspin is reduced with a limi=
ted slip
differential, but it is still a problem). My point was why go to all=
the
trouble and expense of building a high horsepower engine if you can=
=92t make
use of the additional power?
The solution that I proposed was putting the Syncro driveline underne=
ath
giving the car AWD capability. Gemnicj pointed out some of the flaws =
with
this plan - high cost, durability of the Syncro parts, and the proble=
ms
associated with acquiring the parts. All of these arguments are vali=
d, but
unfortunately do not solve the problem of getting the power down. Mo=
st of
the manufacturers have experimented with AWD (Volkswagen included) an=
d it
will solve the problem. However, I am open to other ideas and if som=
eone has
another solution, I would love to hear about it (I=92ve heard Audi ha=
s a few
new FWD tricks). Let=92s hear from you!
*******************************************************
Subj: Re:300/400 HP VR6's
Date: 96-01-10 19:06:00 EST
=46rom: RACEWARE1 =20
Thanks for your input regarding the VR6 engine. EIP is one of our cus=
tomers
and you can be certain they are working expeditiously to develop the =
VR6
engine for maximum performance.
I have not personally checked with EIP to see what the latest develop=
ments
are but, the one report I read of a 3.1L conversion, used 276 degree =
cams,
and other mods that would be much more toward the hotrod end of the s=
pectrum
than what is typically considered a "streetable" configuaration. If E=
IP is
able to develop a 300 HP, 3.0L engine that is "streetable" and meets =
all
emission standards, etc. then they have been able to succeed where al=
l the
other automotive engineers of the World have not. A 100 HP per litre =
for a
normally aspirated engine is certainly possible, and has already been
attained by certain car manufacturers, but only at the sacrifice of l=
ow end
torque and with peak power at a very high rpm.
If you look at some of the existing production turbo'ed models like t=
he
Porsche 944 and other 2-valve per cylinder engines, you will find tha=
t even
with modified boost levels and chips, these engines are making peak p=
ower of
about 120/litre. That's not shabby, but these engines are also on the=
edge of
reliability, even with robust engine design. To expect a reliable 450=
HP 3.0L
VR6 is asking a lot.
I spent over a year developing a Turbo'ed Olds Quad 4 engine for
Buick-Old-Cadillac Engineering, and it was a neat project. At 8.5 psi=
boost
this engine would make a reliable 265 HP with excellent low end driva=
bility.
At 14 psi boost the power jumped to 314 HP, on pump gasoline, thru a
catalytic convertor, etc. This is certified engine dyno power to SAE =
test
procedures. At the 314 HP level you end up with 136 HP/litre. We did =
not run
durability tests at this level, but at the 265 HP level we ran (2) en=
gines at
Wide Open Throttle, (WOT) for 400 hours each without difficulty. I do=
n't
believe this would be possible at the 136/litre level.
The current Porsche 993 twin turbo produces 400 HP from 3.6L or 111 H=
P per
litre. Keep in mind that this is a 2-valve Hemi head design that flow=
s quite
well. The Quad 4 is a 4-valve engine. The VR6 is a 2-valve design wit=
h a less
efficient chamber shape in the piston crown. VW Research did a study =
of the
VR6 with a 4-valve head and reached peak power of 225 HP. The odds ar=
e not
good of seeing a true, streetable 300 HP, 3.0L VR6 or a 450 HP, 3.0L =
Turbo'ed
VR6. I would be interested in seeing any of the dyno sheets for the l=
atest
developments. It might prove very interesting.
You are correct that you would need AWD to harness this kind of power=
. In '89
I viewed the Golf Syncro with the Turbo'ed 1.8L 16V, 210 HP, at VW Mo=
torsport
in Germany. It was a nice package, but extremely expensive. It was OK=
for the
street but as you know it could not handle the stress of Rally Racing=
. I'm
not aware of any good solution to you problem, but I will give it som=
e
thought.
Regards,
Randy Hubbard
*******************************************************
Subj: Re:300/400 HP VR6's
Date: 96-01-11 00:45:43 EST
=46rom: Gemnicj =20
With bench racing, we always seem to tolerate a certain amount of b=
ullshit
as long as we learn something new that we can use or distort later. L=
et's be
honest though. We all try to assert that "mine is better/faster than =
yours"
or "I know more than you do". That's the fun of it, and in and of its=
elf
is...OK I'm told. Excuse me for being way too sensible about this, bu=
t
expecting a VW A2 or A3 platform manage over 300 HP makes me wonder w=
hen all
this enthusiasm is gonna get the better of us. Especially when the fr=
ee and
easy use of the term "streetable" is mentioned in the same breath. Al=
low me
to give you some personal insights as to why I feel so critical.
First off, l must say that many, many years ago, I used to be like =
you'all.
I dreamed and lusted after the almighty HP, but unfortunately could n=
ot
afford it. My poverty however, led me to an interesting discovery. Af=
ter way
too many stupid street racing close calls and tickets, I took my trus=
ty new
84 GTI, joined a local club and began competing regularly in CASC Sol=
o I and
Solo II events. I wanted soooo badly to run with the guys in Street P=
repared
class, what with their fancy-schmancy wheels, trick suspensions, cams=
and
headers ..arrrrrgh. As the single set of Yoko A008s I bought almost b=
roke the
bank, here I was stuck in Stock. Yuk.
After a couple of club school sessions, I learned quickly and deve=
loped a
relationship with the able GTI. As I began to win my class regularly =
at the
end of the first full season, I studied the techniques of the seasone=
d
drivers and started to pay more attention to the time sheets from oth=
er
classes. Of particular interest was the performance of a group runnin=
g
modified 83 and 84 GTIs in SP. With the Drake mods that were popular =
for GTIs
at the time, over 120HP was possible. Compared to my bone stock 90 HP=
, I
expected them to be significantly quicker. They even looked and sound=
ed
quicker. To my surprise they were not. In fact, on any given weekend,=
the
quickest of the trio (who usually finished 3rd or 4th in his class) w=
as never
quicker than my Stock class winning times. On a tight Solo II course =
this was
not unusual as barely 3 seconds covered the entire weekends entry any=
way.
However, when we ran Solo I weekends on the fast circuit at Shannonvi=
lle
however, his times were generally on par with mine. On wet weekends I=
was
always quicker than all of them. This was obviously cause for concern=
as
these fine young gentlemen had spent a ton-o-money and emotion on the=
ir
prized rides only to be equaled or bettered by a stock GTI or the CRX=
that
usually accompanied me on the podium. Upon further perusal of the tim=
e
sheets, I found this to be the case with ALL classes. There was alway=
s a
consistent overlap of Stock vs Prepared times for identical models. F=
ade to
black.
New scene: 1992 Canadian Firestone Firehawk Endurance
Championship...Mosport Park.....In car camera footage from our Schmid=
t Racing
Corrado VR6 (Raceware equipped) ..... all we see is the dirty hindqua=
rters of
some obscene looking Camaro, bobbing and weaving and burbling. As we =
review
the qualifying footage back at the motel, Gunter is furious. Two of t=
he
infamous "slower Camaros" ruin a qualifying run that could have put u=
s on the
Sport Class pole. Let's do some math..Corrado =3D approx. 180 hp. Fir=
ehawk
Camaro =3D approx. 245 hp. Qualifying times for BOTH
cars =3D 1:45.3. ....Gunter's, Alistar's, Peter's and my avg. lap tim=
es at
Mosport =3D 1:44.5. Fade to black. I guess the moral to all this is..=
To value
the ownership of a 300 hp Corrado strictly for the bench racing value=
is
really stoopid. I for one won't be impressed. Get over finding a way =
to get
the power to the ground with AWD. Even if you can afford to further m=
olest
the poor car, it is not gonna happen. Instead, learn to appreciate an=
d use
effectively what you have. The phrase "size doesn't matter...it's how=
you use
it" comes to mind. They say that a good driving school makes you just=
as
quick as the equivalent amount spent on bolt-ons. Believe it and be h=
ealed!=20
JG
*******************************************************
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed Jan 24 11:37 PST 1996
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:51:19 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: ABT 3.1
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com
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Status: RO
> Can you please
>call up the tuner and asking the price for these modification??
Be forewarned, the 3.1 mod is definitely rather pricey (understatement of
the century!), especially if you decide to do an all-out project like the one
featured in the February 1996 issue of European Car. Contact Rally directly
via email at RALLYMSRPT@aol.com if you have questions about the cost of their
project. One of the official ABT distributors in the US is JT Motorsports in
Southern California, but as some others on the list can attest to, JT charges
much more than most tuners for the ABT stuff and has a reputation of being a
bit opinionated on this subject.
North American tuners who have done ABT-based larger displacement VR6
conversions include EIP Tuning, Ron's Parts, GTA, Rally, and AMS (this is not
an exhaustive, all-inclusive listing). Of the above-mentioned, I would
personally recommend EIP (EIPTUNING@aol.com) as they offer their own
innovative performance mods in addition to the German-imported
ABT/Oettinger/Schrick stuff, plus their prices and service compare quite
favourably with most of the competition...
Cheers,
Edward
1992 Black 3104cc VR6
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Mon Jan 29 08:44 PST 1996
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:22:52 -0500 (EST)
From: rbeaudette@state.ma.us
Subject: Q-chip, spoiler, fogs
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Status: RO
Hey, that not hard. I finally got around to putting in my Q-chip. It's
about time, I've only had it for four weeks. For anyone thinking about doing
it yourself, like everyone says, it is not too hard. A rubber mallet helps
to "urge" the air intake housing and brainbox to move.
I've put 160 miles on the chip, mostly highway. The power seems to be
slightly better, not as significant as I thought it would be (tough to judge
without measuring). Acceleration in the low rpms is not too noticably
quicker. All in all, I can't say for sure that even at $105 it was worth the
price. Fuel economy seems to be suffering, but I will wait for a few more
long trips to make sure. This is my first experience with chipping a car, so
I am not sure what I should have expected. Although I am aware the VR6 is
not as amenable to chipping as the other engines in VW's lineup.
I also took the time to change my spoiler speed. Thanks to those who rumaged
through the dash to find the right module and resistor.
Matthew who just go new fogs: Kindly keep updating the list on the longevity
of your new fogs. If these last, I will finally replace my cracked but
functioning fogs.
Cheers
Roland
93 VR6
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Mon Jan 29 22:41 PST 1996
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:36:23 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: AMS 3.0L VR6
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Status: RO
VR6 conversion. In brief, this is an AMS 3.0L project courtesy of the ABT
crankshaft with modified pistons. Throw in a VW Motorsports VSR inlet
manifold, ABT 268 cams and heavy-duty valve springs, Techtonics ported,
polished & flowed head (to which the VSR is match ported to),
custom-programmed AMS chip, Neuspeed throttle body, ABT headers & rear
muffler, Sachs sports clutch, Quaiffe differential, 225/40ZR16 SP8000,
Neuspeed Sports Springs , Bilstein Sports shocks, Neuspeed anti-sway bar &
upper strut tie-bar, and you have a very impressive car!
Preliminary dyno figures are 240 engine hp @ 5500rpm after only 100 miles,
more is expected after the break-in period and fine-tuning on the dyno. Like
me, the owner of this car does not want to come out with any unverified
claims of monster power gains, and also wants a relatively unsouped-up
appearance. He's currently subscribed to the list and will probably post
some details once more objective measurements are available (or I'll pass on
the info, with his permission).
Cheers,
Edward
1992 Black 3104cc VR6
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu Feb 1 22:16 PST 1996
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Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 00:14:54 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Turbo VR6s and EIP's 3.1
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making good progress with their turbo VR6 project, great! However, I believe
RPI has some way to go before we'll get to see their twin-turbo 3.1 terror on
the road. Oh well. And how's the ND turbo 2.8 coming along, Tim? Should be
exciting when this muscle-bound generation of forced induction VR6 are
finally in production...maybe I should "upgrade" mine? Just joking, I'm
broke enough as it is!!!
Anyway, I think I'll have enough power to bask in for a little while
(heehee!), looks like our design objectives of well-distributed power,
stealth, and relative streetability may have mostly been achieved in this
3.1, guess we'll find out after next week's dyno runs. A fat and useful
powerband is what I'm really hoping for, rather than a peaky max hp at some
ridiculously high rpm range (even if the latter looks more impressive when it
comes to bragging rights!). This mild-looking VR6 may not be a mean
quarter-mile or traffic-lights machine, but I think it'll surprise a few
people... ;o)
Cheers,
Edward
1992 Black 3104cc Sleeper VR6
****************************************************************
<< Hi Edward ! Pleased to hear from you. Just to let you know we reserved
dyno time in three weeks! So I''ll let you know how the 3.1 turns out then.
Oh, also along with our turbocharged Jetta GLX, utilizing a Garret TO4, a
Skyline Gtr Intercooler, Greddy external wastegate, Trust Rebic3 fuel control
computer along with their Simulator, a 3 inch exhaust from the turbo back
emptying into a Borla XR1, along with the Quaiffe and Sachs 4puck clutch and
alum.alloy lightweight pressure plate etc. etc. etc. How we lowered the
compression ratio will remain confidential at this time. Guesstimating Hp.
figures should be well over 300!!!!!
I'll definitely keep you posted...
Ciao,
George >>
****************************************************************
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Mon Feb 5 22:28 PST 1996
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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 01:23:40 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: ABT 3.1 upgrade
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com
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>Don't quote my exact figures (I
>don't have the magazine here in front of me), but for around
>$4500 - $5000 (maybe more!), ABT modifications will "modestly"
>bump horsepower up to 260 with an accompanying 0-60 time in
>the 5.5 to 5.7 second range.
>
> Yan (93 SLC)
As a reference, here are some advertised prices from EC for the 3.1 VR6
kits:
RPI - ABT 3.1 kit, $5950
EIP - Custom 3.1 kit, $4899
(Note that EIP's 3.1 is somewhat different from the regular ABT 3.1 in that
the former uses larger 83mm forged & thermal-barrier coated pistons with a
higher compression ratio of 11:1, compared to ABT's 82mm pistons and 10.8:1
compression. Both incorporate the ABT 95.6mm longer-stroke forged
crankshaft).
Thus far, I'm not aware of any verifiable road hp dyno figures published
for the ABT 3.1 kit in the US. There have however been a few claims and
estimates that seem to range from 240 engine hp upwards (the most common ones
being 250-260hp). Note that these 3.1 engines had additional performance
parts installed, such as a modified chip programme, P-Flow, ported throttle
bodies, the VSR, wilder cams, flowed & polished VR6 cylinder heads, headers,
performance exhausts, etc. These mods would contribute some of the extra
power reported and also bump up the costs of the 3.1 conversion by a
significant amount!
Cheers,
Edward
1992 Black 3104cc Sleeper VR6
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Mon Feb 5 20:47 PST 1996
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Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 23:42:46 -0500
From: CorradoVR6@aol.com
Subject: jacking, speed calcs,3.1 litre prices
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RE:
>6) I need to rotate my tires. I have a floor jack and two jack stands. I
>know this might seem silly, but how do I do it? Rather, what is the safe
>way to do it? It doesn't seem to stable to me to jack up one side of the
>car in both the front and the back, but I could be wrong.
When I rotate my tires, I jack up the rear axle with a hydraulic jack placed
directly in the middle of the rear axle, that way both rear wheels lift up.
Then I place a jackstand at each end of the axle. That gets both rear wheels
in the air and frees up the jack to lift up one front tire at a time and
rotate that particular side's wheels.
Regarding the person who asked about the EIP 3.1 litre prices, I asked them
for info, and here's what you get:
11:1 lightweight forged alloy pistons with 2 High performance coatings
ABT 95.6mm forged crank,Total Seal ring pack, spiral lock clips, Raceware rod
bolt set, Rod bearing set, maing bearing set, lower gasket set. for $4899.
Options are Raceware main stud kit which is recommended to increase strength
of crank position and reduces wear, $169. Also Raceware head stud kit,
recommended motor options, to greatly increase clamping pressure of cylinder
head and reduces possibility of gasket failure $199. Also Complete upper
gasket set, i.e. head gasket, oil seals, exhaust gaskets, intake gaskets,
valve cover gasket, etc. $229.
3.0 litre kit is similar for $2399
Now, regarding the speed calculations posted earlier taking into account the
engine RPM, the final drive ratio, and the wheel circumference I don't get
the same results at all. I used a stopwatch a GPS and the friendly
neighboorhood radar trailor to determine that at, say 3500 RPM, my OEM tire
sized SLC goes 75.3 MPH, and at 4000 R's it goes 86.1, and at 4500 it goes
96.1 and not 78, 90, and 101 respectively as calculated in a previous posting
for the US SLC with 205/50/15 tires. What gives? Incidentally, I determined
that in 5th gear, I can multiply the RPM's by 2.1535885 X 10 -2 to get an
accurate speed.
Just thought I'd put in my $.02
Rog.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jan 10 00:13 PST 1996
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 02:25:51 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: EC article on Rally's 3.1 Corrado
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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OK, folks, I've just received the latest clarification from George of
Rally Motorsports about those 2 questions that have been put forward about
the EC article on Rally's 3.1.
The revelation that a 0.76 ratio 5th gear and larger diameter tires were used
would account somewhat for this higher top speed (Karl, care to do another
calculation based on the figures below to verify/dispute this?)... Here it
is:
<< Hi, Ed. I'm really happy that there was so much interest in the 3.1 in the
FEB issue
of EC. I've read these questions that seem to be nagging some people's
minds, so
here I am prepared to answer them .
1) To describe the torquey feel of the car would be quite hard, meaning
that the motor had only 50 miles on it when Peter Wu and I took it out for
its debut. So everything
is quite tight in there . After all the dyno did state 256hp @ 6200rpm and
254 lbs/ft @
6000rpm (Dynojet chassis dynometer). I' m sure if you drove the car you
would notice the difference! Despite the wide tires, how many Corrados or
shall I say VR6s do you know where in 1st & 2nd gears the steering wheel
wants to tear out of your hands? I bet very, very few! And that's just not
from gearing alone!
Which moves us onto the second question.
2) When you do computerized gear charts, a lot of things have to go into the
equation
to make them almost accurate (within 5 to 10 mph). Tire size for instance -
a GSD
225/35-17 is equal to a 23.2 inch diameter. A stock tire diameter is 29.8.
Fifth gear was also changed to 0.76. We expect a lot more from this vehicle
as it progressively
breaks in!!!!!!!!!!!!!
George >>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Jan 9 19:52 PST 1996
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 20:56:49 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: EC article on Rally's 3.1 Corrado
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Spoke briefly with George from Rally today, and his explanation was that
the EC article was inaccurate, that if anything the Rally ABT 3.1 experienced
a gain rather than a loss in low-end torque especially since its head did not
featured bigger valves... Did not get a chance to ask about the
speed/gearing question though.
Anyway, he plans to join the Corrado list soon, so it may get interesting
(entertaining?!) with 3 major tuners on-line... I think his email address is
"RallyMsrpt@aol.com", or something like that.
Well, this is not meant to be a plug for any tuner by the way, I hope that
whoever joins the list will contribute their advice and opinions primarily as
VW enthusiasts rather than indulging in political back-stabbing... ;o)
Edward
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed Feb 7 10:36 PST 1996
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Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 13:04:45 +0000
From: cgade@hallam.com
Subject: Improved Throttle Body!
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I'd like to relay an experience I had dealing with a fellow C fanatic,
Brian Jowett. About a month ago he offered to improve my C's T-body
by removing the restrictive step. I liked his honest approach, he
knew the reason the step was there and why people, like me, like to
have it removed.
I drove 3.5 hours from Vermont to get the job done, and ended up
having him step me through it--bonus! Brian has all the tools,
experience and patience for me to do it in 90 minutes.
The car is now more snappy and seems to reach the redline faster. I
also learned bunches about the C and got to drool over his Flash Red
C. Brian is definitely a cool guy with a girlfriend who puts up with
us VW geeks and a very friendly huge dog. Thanks, Bri, and don't sell
your C for a Synchro...
Chris
Vermont
93 SLC Inproved T-Body!, 5 brake lights, Pflo
From UniqueVR6@aol.com Fri Feb 9 01:05 PST 1996
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Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 03:58:59 -0500
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: Get-togethers?
To: Marisa9413@aol.com, jan@UG.EDS.COM, char@netvoyage.net,
BKXPSC@tevm2.nsc.com, oconnelc@halsp.hitachi.com, karl@advansys.com,
wilfred@sfsu.edu, kafka@cats.ucsc.edu, wkgee@ucdavis.edu,
radog60@ix.netcom.com
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<< yeah lets get together............Bay area and LA >>
<>
<>
**************************************************************
Sounds good, I'll try to update you all on my final plans, hopefully
before I leave for the East Coast, if not, then after I return to California
(will be without email for 2 weeks starting Thurs, 2/15, which is when I fly
to New York)... Oh, here's a teaser recently sent to me:
Cheers,
Edward
******************************************************************************
************************
Hey, Ed what's up. I finally got to see what your car could do today. Steve
took me for a ride a few miles down the road and let me drive it back (I hope
that you don't mind - I take extremely good care of my car and do the same to
others). I must say that I am impressed! The power delivery is smoother
than stock, giving the car a false sense of acceleration. By that I mean that
you don't experience a sudden surge or flat spot in power at any point, just
smooth delivery at all rpms due to the super linear powerband.
When Steve was accelerating at one point I wasn't too impressed at first
because I thought we were in second, until I found out we were in third.
40-60mph in second gear is probably the strongest surge of power in a
"normal" VR6, in my opinion it is the most impressive way to show off a
Corrado. Well, your car has the same pull in third as my car (P-chip,
P-flow, throttle body) in second at that rpm range.
The idle is not quite as smooth as a car without aftermarket cams, but unless
you are really familiar with how smooth a VR6 is, the 268 cams would go
unnoticed. The exhaust is as "stealth-sounding" as stock also. It is deeper
in frequency than stock, but nowhere near as loud as a car equiped with a
P-flow. I did not get to do any top speed runs, but up until 80 mph the car
is sick!
I believe the story about the M3. The driveability is more impressive than
stock, your 3.1 is definitely faster than a stock or modified 2.8. Also I
think you can expect about 20 more horsepower after the EIP manifold, chip,
and TB are installed. It is an M3 with the body of a Corrado...
Love it, ED F.
******************************************************************************
************************
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed Feb 14 17:33 PST 1996
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:23:38 -0500
From: The Only True Corrado
Subject: Oettinger 3.1, PIAA 1200/1000, Euro Lights, Suko cams, Euro 2.9.
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Organization: Ecole des Hautes Etudes Commerciales de Montreal
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Hi everybody!!
This post is for all, but the first part is mostly for UniqueVR6
(Edward) and the others who want to know about Oettinger 3.1...
This post contains updates and infos
Ok, here's the infos (and updates) :
I've called GTA 2min ago (well, now it's more than 2min, cuz it
takes me time to write down this msg)... ;-)
Euro Lights : NO EURO LIGHTS AT GTA! B.O. too! I was the 4th guy who
called TODAY for Euro lights... for Cs, of course... When I asked him if
he have Euro lights, he laughed a bit, and I said, "What?", he said
"Your the 4th person who call for the same part today."... "Ah!", I
said... so no European lights till 4 weeks... Do someone wants to oder
anyway? About $400-430US, I think... Phone number is : 1-514-443-4500.
Oettinger 3.1 : NO!!! Oettinger NEVER produced a 3.1 kit... They sell
the special kit for the 2.8, which puts out about 240hp at higher revs,
but NO 3.1 ; only ABT and EIP has... (maybe others are, but the most
known are EIP and ABT, to my knowlegde)...
Suko cams : I don't know if it's an update, but I've never read, in the
past, something positive/interesting about Suko cams ; but here is :
GTA told me that Sukos are great, cuz hallow and light... "Yes,
but are they brittle, weak?", I said... he replyed "No they are not,
they had been tested severely and passed the tests ; they are as solid
as rock (I'm extrapoling a bit what he said), like other males, uh,
oups, MAKES." He already did couple of mods with Sukos on Cs and the
clients are 100% satisfied... They don't want to sell something that
don't worth the price (depending on some conditions and the what you
want)... except if you insists...
PIAA 1000/1200 : Maybe it's not a good choice to buy the new 1200 from
PIAA... Cuz they are less solid, more weak than the others (1000, 900,
etc)... Simply cuz they are NOT made of iron like it's predecessors...
This is cuz PIAA wants to reduce the price of their lamps... So maybe
the 1000 is a better choice than the new 1200... (especially here in
Quebec, where rocks and salt is abundant in winter, even if I just go
out less than an 1h/week in winter with my C!)
Euro 2.9 engine (the one on the VR6s synchro) : GTA told me that the
Euro 2.9 is a great (he almost tried to say : a must) choice for those
who wants to have a 3.0+ engine. Cuz the walls on the normal 2.8 are
thiner than the ones on the 2.9 (BTW, this 2.9 produces a bit more than
190hp, and of course, has better torque), and that means that if you
enlarge, make bigger the pistons, those (pistons) will probably heat and
overheat the block (the engine) of the normal 2.8 (which has been
upgraded to a 3.0+, don't forget)...
GTA said that in Quebec, you must pay attention of those
possible overheating probs... It could seriously affect the engine
(talking about a 2.8 boosted up to 3.0+)... Also (and that I really
dislike what he said), he said that revving the engine too high, like
8000-8500, often, could, with the 2.8 walls, cuz the overheat... I don't
know if he's 100% right, but I'm sure that it's partly true.... I DON'T
WANT TO DISCOURAGE C OWNERS TO UPGRADE THEIR 2.8 UP TO A 3.0 OR
3.1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not saying that... I'm just saying that you
must pay attention to that, and take care of it... You must know what to
do, and what NOT to do (does someone had tested a 3.0+ at the max and
NEVER experiented overheating probs? Maybe, surely!, that's why I don't
think it's 100% true).
GTA said that they stopped the rpm of their 2.9 (cuz their
produces 2.9) at 6800, cuz they want to keep a margin, cuz they heavily
guarantee their "engines"... And they also said (not of interest for
those who don't want to have affairs with GTA) that they don't really
want to install their competitors parts on a car they will maintain
after... That sucks, cuz I'll have to revise the mods I wanted to buy
from US tuners... (EIP, ND, etc...) They said they will do install, but
not engines..., well, not a complete engine... sucks me, really... I can
buy almost everything, but if I'm buying 100% from their competitors,
(mostly EIP, snif!! ;-(), they wouldn't appreciate to install the stuff
and maintain the car.
He said that if you don't want to have a 2.9, but you want to
have a really tough engine, you could buy titanium connecting rods,
instead... which are very expensive... I know one car who came with
titanium con rods, and it's the Super Great Porsche 959, and I'm sure
every of you guys have one!! ;-)
Anyway, at the end, the max "streetable" hp (dyno figures) their
2.9 (with VSR and all the blahblah) can make is between 250-270
(estimated 260) after it breaks in (almost the max power for a street
2.9. For race, it's about 350hp!)...
BTW, he suprised me when he said that he didn't want to sell me
the Neuspeed P-flow, I have to precise, ONLY the Neuspeed P-flow... I
said "Why?", he said that "ONLY the P-flow does nothing, except sound...
If you want to have sound, ok, buy it, or else, you'll buy it for
nothing..." I was suprised of is, uh, "thoughts"... I said "No, it's cuz
I'll make bigger mods this summer and changing the air box is something
that I'll anyway do sometime, so I said to myself : let's do it
earlier..." He answered "Ok, I understand, you can buy one, but if you
don't have the will to make other mods later, except sound, the p-flow
will give you nothing..." Strange way of thinking, but honest he was,
like any other tuners I've heard from (EIP, ND, etc...), I have to say
that...!
They heavily guarantee all their work and products... They don't
want their client to have probs, that's why they keep margin, and
rejects mods that has higher POSSIBILITIES to have probs... except if
you insists... They also said that if you buy all from GTA (I didn't
said GTA's parts, but buying parts FROM GTA, no matters if it's ABT, ND
or others parts), they will shorten in time, and you can get out with a
bill of $9000CAN ($6521.74US EXACTLY, cuz the exchange rate is 1.3800
today) for something that should've cost you $12 000CAN ($8695.65US).
I'll have to revise all over the mods I wanted to do... shit,
I'm getting crazy for all the time I'm passing on gathering infos each
day (maybe I'm already crazy...!) ;-) and trying to find the best mod
for me... Anyway, I don't have the choice, cuz they're the only one
around here who can maintain correctly my car...
Anyway, that's it, and that's the news he told me... Maybe you don't
agree (feel free to tell me if yes and why) or maybe you do agree (feel
free to tell me if no and why)...
Myself, I don't know if I agree or not... I'll wait for your answers...
But one thing is sure : Quebec is a rough place for cars... better have
a tough engine that will last long...
The discussion with GTA removed me the smile I had before I called....
;-(
Frank
with a big mess in my brain...
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Tue Feb 20 03:39 PST 1996
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id KAA285173; Tue, 20 Feb 1996 10:50:40 GMT
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 04:44:17 -0500 (EST)
From: komosa@ibm.net (Mark Komosa)
Subject: Ignition coils, Q-chip K&N Autolite Platinums,VR6 vs Musta
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com
Cc: alf@teleport.com
Reply-To: komosa@ibm.net (Mark Komosa)
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(There is more in here than the subject line could fit, like curing
chirping dashes,
backfiring seeming to go away with new chip, at the bottom of the
post..
This mail is like my personal digest!)
Hi All,
Haven't posted in a while, so I'll sum up all my recent experiences
all at once, and
maybe somebody will find worth while to read, if at multiple
readings...
My C, seems like this is the preferred way to refer to them lately...,
went into
the dealer for a new ignition coil a couple of weeks back, it felt
like it wasn't firing
all cylinders, just squeezed it under 24k waranty. I did get the
Master Guard platinum plan as well (84 months/100K miles $0 deductible
for $1045). I
was disappointed to see that window mechanism is not covered, though
the sun roof
is not excluded, and it's beginning to pop.... (jaws music...)
Anyway, the dealer recommended the 30K tune up, since my car has been
on the
road since 2/94 (93 SLC), it was time. I believe they wanted $217 for
it. Of course, I
politely declined and started planning the Great Tune up. Froze my
butt off nicely
in this process, this was during the worst cold spell this winter!
Ordered the Q-chip, couldn't resist the price, and K&N, tracked down
the Autolite
$.99 plugs at a local store, but went with the more expensive platinum
version.
Did the chip first, not before doing some timed runs/roll-ons.
The first time one does something it's usually hell, but this chip
swap can be done in
15-20 minutes the next time.
The biggest problem that took me an ungodly amount of time is to
figure out how to
take that bloody circlip that holds the fresh air intake in place. The
only way it will
come out is if you push on it , behind the peg with one screwdriver,
while pulling it
out towards the outside with another. This will make sense if you look
at it. Once
that box was out, it's a snap.
Putting that circlip back on is also a bit tricky since there is
little
space to put your hand in there to slide the circlip into the rails of
the intake box
once you put the box completely in place. I inserted the clip lightly
into the
rails with the box partially lifted out, then placed the box
completely in , and all
that remains to do is to push the clip all the way with a screwdriver.
The car started with no problems. I blipped it a few times , and I
could tell
a difference in the sound, and how fast the needle went around the
tach.
It's sounded a lot more determined, the stock seems a bit lethargic in
comparison.
The air box was next, boy it's a pain! I was able to undo does clips
which split the
box in two and took out the filter. I took out and cleaned the
intake mesh,
it was pretty clogged. I tried to look around for the infamous
snorkel, but wasn't
sure what it was. Now the fun started when I tried to put it back
together.
The K&N filter's rubber frame is not molded the same as the stock and
the filter can
slide around if you put it on the top of the air box. I ended up
putting the filter into
the lid first, which is a snug fit, before trying to close the whole
thing up.
That worried me at first since the box the filter came in said it was
for a A2 GTI,
but on the other side it said it was for a V6, still it's not as nice
fit as the original.
Now, someone at some time mentioned that the best way to deal with
clips holding
the box together, is to remove the box out of the car totally. I tried
that, and there
seemed to be no way that a completely assembled box can go back into
it's cavity
with that aluminum/rubber hose running along the fender.
I took it apart again, put the bottom half back in, then I sqeezed in
the lid and
closed the clips, with lots of pain, swearing, and manuvering of the
box,
But it was done!
Next day went to repeat the runs/roll-ons. Very dissapointed. I did
not see any
improvement in the 4th and 5th 40-60mph roll-ons. The 0-60 times I
can't trust
since I was getting a lot of tire spin with the winter tires, plus
it's like -40F out in
Chicago. The only difference was the responsiveness/sound of the
engine.
And I really wasn't sure I want to have a more strained engine for no
gains in
performance. Serious thoughts about returning the chip.
Then came the surprising part, the new plugs went in (don't try this
without your
10" extension, spark plug socket, and I hope you'll will have a better
way to
reattach the wires than I did.).
The engine just seemed to come alive, I could tell just from blipping
the throttle,
the needle went around like mad. Then I drove out, it was a bit damp,
I new something had changed because I was spinning the fronts in a
situation
where before that would not happen.
I must say that the 4th 40-60mph didn't change much at all,
(was 6.67 is 6.45 this is just some stop watch timings, different days
and conditions)
I don't remeber what the rpm is at 60mph in 4th, but I think it's
right before the fun
starts, around 4K and up, so it's not too surprising.
But I believe that the 0-60 will be different, if I could actually put
that power to the ground.
Have to wait till spring and the Intermediates to be on.
Inaccurate timings aside, the car has been transformed. It revs
faster, seems to
be stronger , especially over 4K, at redline it doesn't seem to be
straining at all,
just producing a nice determined, tuned sound, sort of like a sport
bike, and if you think the stock VR6 sounds mean, this is like a VR6
on steroids.
And then I found a Mustang. I got his attention, he snuck up behind
me, this is
around 60-70mph, he might have been trying to draft me, he jumped out
and was
trying to take me, I of course let the C loose, and he just came back
in behind me.
Im not sure why. I let him catch up and now parallel, he tried to
take me a couple
more times, couldn't do it. The last run I let him catch up, get
ahead of me about
car length before I let it loose again. I downshifted to 3rd , that
put me at about 5k
rpm, and I started to gain on him, after the shift to 4th the rate of
gain increased,
then I overtook him and kept pulling away , we hit triple digits.
Now, I wasn't blowing his doors off but I gained on a 95-96 GT
after letting him go first. So that's something for a 2.8l!
Speaking of backfiring while blipping the throttle... I have put the
stock chip
back in and blipped the throttle a few times, I get the backfiring
that people are
talking about. With the Q-chip, the backfiring is non-existant to
nil, no answer
just an observation.
So as you can tell I'm pretty happy with the result of these mods. I
was
really surprised by the change the spark plugs made. The old ones
didn't seem
to be in bad shape, they were the NGK with dual electrodes. Either
these
Autolites are something really neat, or it was just replacing an aging
plug with
something new that made the difference.
The only caveat is the gas mileage. I don't know how some peple say
that
their highway mileage goes up with their chips. Mine is stuck at
22mpg on the
highway. Maybe there is still something wrong with my car, since my
mileage was
shit for a month or two before the iginition coil totally went, and I
haven't driven
long enough on the stock chip after the dealer visit to know if it had
returned to the
orginal 25+mpg.
Maybe the cold has something to do with it as well. How about the
filter? Will that increase fuel consumption? It can't be all my right
foot!
But even if it's the chip, I'm keeping it there. Maybe I'll put the
stock back in some
time.
I did the oil&filter as well, got to do the brake fluid job. I got a
Mighty-Vac
at the Track&Auto, I think it was on sale for $25.00. Should be no big
deal, right?
Im sure it'll be fun, just like anything else the first time on a new
machine.
Went to the Chicago auto show last weekend, the first thing I get in
my hand
is a flyer from the local SCCA club. Guess what, I signed up for the
two day
school for Solo II. Now Im thinking wider pedals and 4 point harness.
I was able to find Bondurant book on driving , but I have seen somebod
y post
a title of a book specific to autocross, but I must have deleted that
mail.
Does anyone know what it is? Bob doesn't seem to like front wheel
drive cars.
He devotes a whole lot more space to his achievements in the racing
world than
to this topic.
One more thing, if you have read this far... im impressed.
The squeek, or chirp that alf@teleport is complaining about from his
dashboard sounds alot like the chirp I had in mine.
While playing with the chip, I found the bolts that hold the dash to
the
body. This was a tip from another list member. But maybe it should be
repeated.
How to find them bolts:
Look at the windshield, there is a plastic strip running along the
bottom of the wind
shield. It's divided into three pieces. Two short, on the sides, and
longer one in the
middle. There is a bolt pretty much directly under each of these
joints reachable from the area where the ECU and the wiper motor is
located. You will have to feel
for them, they are not visible.
I think they are 10mm nuts.
(I didn't acutally find the right hand one, but the Bentley displays
two symmetrically placed bolts. The right one I couldn't get to
because of the wiper mechanism. Heaven help whoever needs to get at
it, tell me how you did it afterwards.
Luckily my driver side is quiet , but for how long..)
The left bolt is just to the left of the ECU box, and below that joint
described above.
Put your hand in the, don't know what to call this, cavity and reach
upwards with
your hand, you should feel a bolt with a nut, possibly no nut just a
bolt if it totally
came off.
(Mine was totally loose, after tightening no more chirps)
I know how annoying that chirp is, I was sooooooooo glad to have found
it.
There are also two bolts that actually hold the dash itself to a
bracket
which we just tightened to the body, above. But I figure you need to
take the
glove box out to get at the left hand side, and the instrument cluster
for the
right (looking from the front of the car). But this is pure
speculation. I might
do that if there is any additional noises from the dash.
Any cures for the squeeking Cpillar plastics?
Alright, I hope some of this proves usefull to somebody.
Mark
Mark Komosa
komosa@ibm.net 93 SLC
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu Feb 22 07:36 PST 1996
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 10:20:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Samuel Chung-Ky Lee
Subject: Edward's 3.1 l
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To all that have been following Edwards EIP 3.1 l with interest...I am
happy to report that his car is nothing short of a wet dream.
Edward...I'm sorry you had difficulties with your airline schedule and it
prevented us from meeting. Jason Livingood, myself, and a couple of guys
from PA (sorry guys I already forgot your names...though I remember Hoover
was a last name) made the pilgrimage to EIP in Maryland to meet Edward,
the guys at EIP and the 3.1 L.
The 3.1 L outfitted with 17" Hockenheim wheels with rubberbands for tires
and EIP lettering is the only give a way that something special may be up
with the car...then you look a little closer and see the cross drilled
rotors, monster brake calipers, smoked lenses and eurospec lights, and
chrome tailpipe...then your suspicions about this car get a bit
stronger. Pop the hood the beautiful red Neuspeed plug wires stand out
and so does the polished EIP manifold and p-flow like filter conversion
(Authority?)...From here I'm in complete awe and will not be able to
describe all the technical features with any justice and will defer that
to Rich and Edward.
After washing and polishing Steve of EIP literally took off down the road
for a test run spinning through the first 3 gears (with the short shift
kit) becoming not but a blur on the horizon. After dinner and many hours
of waiting for Edward, we gave up our vigil for a much anticipated ride
in the car. The eurolights practically turned night into day and with
three people in the car and Steve at the wheel 0-80 came at a couple of
blinks of the eyes. The car is tight, well behaved and faster than
HELL! Narry a hint of body or tire roll on the back twisting roads...a
ride that unfortunately makes me want to pull out all the credit cards
(and apply for more) and max them out on the quality work that EIP
performs. Rich, I know this is a plug for you guys...but I think a well
deserved one. Keep up the good work.
Edward...sorry I couldn't stay longer to meet you. I really wanted to see
the expression on your face when you arrived to see your then stock C
fully transformed. I will look forward to seeing it in EC! As for your
cross country drive ahead of you...God Speed and be safe! You and your
car will remain a legend in my mind.
Sam Lee
University of Delaware
'92 SLC...humbly stock...stereo upgrades still in progress
From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Sat Feb 24 14:43 PST 1996
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 17:36:09 -0500
From: Eric Hoover
Subject: EIP's 3.1 beast
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To: 'Corrado Club Digest'