VR6 POWER UPGRADES
==================
Last update: Jul 25, 1995: Split into G60, GTI & VR6 archives.
I collected a bunch of info on engine power upgrades for the
US versions of the Corrado SLC, VR6 Golf/GTI Jetta/Vento/GTX &
Passat GTX as they all share the same VR6 engine.
I have also included personal impressions of these upgrades.
This is not meant as an advertisement. I have NO affiliation
with any of the listed sources.
I also included items from a posting by:
tpaquette@ita.lgc.com (Trevor Paquette(Contract))
See also G60_Chip_Specs, Performance FAQ, G60_Power_Upgrades,
GTI_Power_Upgrades, Wired_Hotrod, Intake_Mods, for more info.
jan@ug.eds.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW THE CHIP WORKS (G60 & VR6)
==============================
There are several shops that sell performance upgrades in the US
(and probably Europe as well).
One is by AutoThority (AT, in VA) the other by Automotive Perf. Systems
(APS, in CA).
They both offer roughly the same packages, each of which boost
the power, though they use slightly different methods.
AutoThority also sells its chips (for less) thru AutoTech (CA)
and APS thru PlainWrap (for less) and others.
Note, there are also other chips available, such as from Advanced
Motor Sport solutions and Superchips. However, I have virtually
no testimonials about either of these, I cannot comment on their
efficacy.
Essentially what the chips do is to "recurve" the ignition
curves and fuel maps.
According to an article in Wired magazine, the German chips
are generally programmed for smooth city driving while more
aggressive at the top end.
(see http://www.wired.com/Etext/2.05/features/silicon.hot.rod.html)
By advancing the ignition up to knock point you increase
power, most notably low end torque.
The result is ca 20% more low end torque and 10% more max power.
The penalty is that you have to use high octane gas, i.e.,
92 US CLC Octane (R+M/2).
Note that there is quite a debate now which chip is better.
According to a few sources, the AT chips are more delicately
tuned, while the APS chips are less radical.
APS also uses the same chip for their Stage II system while
AT offers different chips for each application.
AT also claims that they tune their chips along the entire range,
while APS concentrates more on the top end.
See the torque curves below for a comparison.
One of the things to keep in mind is that the chips are upgraded
from time to time and some of the initial comments may not be
true anymore...
Another thing to keep in mind is that the chips are not interchangeable
with other cars or even between model years. The maps are the same,
but the microcode in the chips are different.
The 92-93 Corrados with ECU code P & CD, using braker ignition use
the same chips, while the later 93 Corrado with brakerless ignition
use a different chip.
Passat, GTI & Jettas, apparently do not have a removable EPROM, and
require the thing to be soldered out.
OVERVIEW: SLC/VR6
=================
As of 1993, both APS & AA have been busy with performance upgrades
for the SLC.
The first upgrade is a chip which works in the same spirit as the G60
power chips.
The improvement is not very dramatic (7 Hp more), but both APS & AA
claim it makes the car more drivable (a test below disputes this though).
The next upgrade is a throttle body.
The US throttle body has an air ramp right in front of the throttle
plate, restricting air flow. The upgrade (which is really the
European TBody from VW) does not have that ramp, and they claim that
the total package (chip + throttle + K&N filter) added 30 road Hps.
The throttle body is rather pricey (about US$ 300), and I
you can't take your existing tbody and mill that ramp out because there
is not enough material in the casting.
Another difference is that the Euro TBody has a progressive mechanism
to open the throttle valve while the US has a direct hoockup.
This makes the low end more controllable but also seemingly softer
(IMHO).
The third difference is with the potentiometer. It is also different
but I don't know how.
Initial experiments have shown that the TBody & K&N actually improved
our gas mileage for sustained highway driving from about 26 mpg to
about 28 mpg. However, if you use the power, you will use more fuel
than before. YMMV.
Removing the airbox funnel will benefit performance & not produce the
G60 wailing sound. See also Intake_Mods for more info.
The sound of the VR6 with the airbox modifications is awesome!
It's not overbearing on highway cruizing, and each time you accelerate,
you get this nice deep growl.
Later 93 Corrados require two airfilters if the original airbox is removed:
one for the intake, a second (the size of a 1/2 US$ coin) for the airpump.
The kit that APS, AMS, and so on sell for the VR6 Corrados consists
of a bracket and an 8inch cylindrical K&N filter, part number RE-0910.
If you are handy with sheet metal bending you can probably construct
yourself a bracket and save US$50.
After these initial upgrades, it becomes increasingly more expensive
to produce more power. Probably, the next logical step are a new set
of camshafts such as those made by Schrick (US$1300).
After that, the Variable Inlet Manifold (US$2300) may be the next
logical choice. I
From an unconfirmed source [bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche):
>No. The VW is *built* by a corporation. It is designed by engineers
>who probably get as much of a kick out of driving for pleasure as you do.
>Proof of that is in the VR6 option of a VSR (variable inlet manifold)
>providing much more torque in the mid-range and available from VW
>Motorsport. It has not appear in series production due to accountants.
>Nevertheless, the designers developed it further so that it could be
>offered as an "after-market" option.
See also VR6_Variable_Intake, VR6_Variable_Intake_MH & the Pictures
of it.
t improves mostly the mid-range.
The problem is that the combination of all of the above may not
work that well to gether, and a few tuners are working on it as I am
writing this.
There are now also kits being offered by Oetinger that change the intake
manifold, cams and a few other things.
There is also a Turbo charger available from Germany (for 6000US$)
that will boost the SLCs power to about 300Hp, making the car virtually
unmanagable.
Note that the new VW/Ford Van, the Sharan, is supposed to carry a
turbo charged version of the VR6 producing about 250 Hp.
No parts available as yet.
TORQUE CURVES
=============
The following data was inferred from the torque graphs supplied by
AutoThority (yes, I just eye-balled the values, but the resulting graphs
are fairly close to theirs).
The data is in ft/lbs, and it show, (US) G60 Stock, Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3,
and SLC Stock, SLC + AT Chip (SAT) and SLC + APS (SAP).
Note that I have no idea on the accuracy (or reliability)
of any of these measurements.
RPM G60 AA1 AA2 AA3 SLC SAT SAP
1000 97 104 121
1500 117 124 147 147
2000 130 137 168 170 158
2500 140 147 182 190 161
3000 149 160 195 201 171 172 167
3500 157 165 197 204 183 186 187
4000 154 166 207 211 196 199 188
4500 156 162 200 205 197 203 208
5000 135 156 195 200 191 202 193
5500 135 145 175 195 185 188 180
6000 125 131 132 155 166 169 167
6500 106 125 142
Using some smoothing, interpolation & making up some points,
I got the following curves:
G60: Torque = 48.127 + 5.57E-2 x RPM - 7.19E-6 x RPM^2
AA1: Torque = 52.964 + 5.76E-2 x RPM - 7.42E-6 x RPM^2
AA2: Torque = 37.879 + 9.03E-2 x RPM - 1.22E-5 x RPM^2
AA3: Torque = 32.821 + 9.23E-2 x RPM - 1.19E-5 x RPM^2
SLC: Torque = 63.750 + 4.43E-2 x RPM - 1.62E-7 x RPM^2 - 7.21E-10 x RPM^3
SAT: Torque = 68.374 + 3.55E-2 x RPM + 3.68E-6 x RPM^2 - 1.12E-9 x RPM^3
All the data fitted with 96% or better Pierson Correlation Coeff.
(Better fit with 3rd degree equation)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPRESSIONS
===========
P-CHIP for the !SLC!
====================
Subject: Corrado performance chips
From: ahogben@informix.com (Andrew Hogben)
Date: 6 May 93 17:17:08 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Originator: ahogben@mirage
Lines: 34
Last night I heard some interesting information in which Jan and a few others
might be interested. My brother has a friend who owns a shop that, among
other things, has a rolling road dyno. It seems when my brother was there
his friend was testing an SLC that had a Neuspeed "chip" installed (that was
the only mod). Well, the results were very disappointing. It had a gain
of *1* (yes, that's a _one_) horsepower at I don't remember what rpm. It
actually *lost* 1-2 hp at other rpm and was no different over the rest of the
test (you can take your engine as high as you want, but if/when it goes bang,
it's your problem. And yes, some engines do go bang :-). In this case the
owner wanted the car tested to redline. So, this is some concrete evidence
about one of the "chips" available for the Corrado. One thing the dyno
obviously can't test is any change in drivability, but overall it doesn't
seem to be worth it in this case (at least IMO).
Andy
--
Andy Hogben
Informix Software, Inc.
ahogben@informix.com -or- {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!ahogben
'87 GTI 8v (weekdays) -or- '73 Lotus Europa Special (weekends)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From New Dimensions's BBS:
Probably TurboTim
We have tested all the Neuspeed chips and we show from 4-7 hp gain at
all rpm points. Will have to post the results of the dyno test for all
to read. The 6 cyl. chips works great! Just like your Golf chip did!
Tom, there is not a chip for the 1.8 16V. Bummer!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mshearer@math.ucla.edu (Michael Shearer)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 10:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: jan@lipari.usc.edu
X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
BTW: I bought the AutoThority chip for my VR6...I'm probably going to
return it. A LOT of pinging, even with 92 octane gas + octane
booster. I haven't really noticed any jump in performance either.
Still want to do a little more testing, but it looks bad.
Mike
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: loik@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Matias Loikkanen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Have you tried a P-Chip in your VR6?
Date: 14 Nov 1994 16:21:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine
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In article <3a62j7$96f@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, Saidra wrote:
>I am thinking about buying a VW with a VR6 (Corrado, Jetta, Passat). I
>keep having these fantasies about putting some mods on the engine. Just
>enough to make it a little crazy but very drivable too. I want to know if
>any of you have any advice on putting in a power chip or maybe a less
>restrictive air box.
>
I have the P-flow K&N air filter setup and also the throttle body --
sounds great but not convinced it gives me noticable hp improvement.
I also had the P-chip (all these from Neuspeed BTW) but took it out
since it went bad (something went wrong, I don't know what). Well,
I notice absolutely no difference in power below 5500rpm. Perhaps
it adds some in the very high (with the chip that is) end but I don't `
think it is worth it. Other VR6 owners have said that these mods really
don't do that much ( to the G60 they do make much more of a diff).
Mat
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mat Loikkanen University of California, Irvine loik@ece.uci.edu
Dept. of Elect. and Computer Egr.
1992 VW Corrado SLC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jan Vandenbrande
Date: Oct/Nov 94
I just installed the VR6 TBody on our 92 Corrado SLC as the first
power improvements (other than K&N) to this car.
It's an expensive piece of equipment, but buying directly from
PlainWrap you get a bit of break. The odd thing is, if you order
through plainwrap, APS actually ships it...so I wonder if PW has
become part of APS...Same box, shipping label == APS, etc.
I have never met the guys at PW, but my wife did while picking up a part.
They are a bunch of hard core racers and started this business (with
sales of computer software in the same office) to support their
racing expences.
Installation is about as easy as it gets, and took me under an hour
to do with some cleaning of parts included.
The main difference between the STock US TBody and the APS one is
that it does not have the restrictor in front of the throttle valve.
APS's TBody is nothing more than the one VW puts on their European
counter parts, and therefore it's a perfect fit. The part even says
VW on it and it is made by Pierburg (AAAHHHHH, memories of my Pierburg
Zenith 2B5 carb comes to mind, where is my shotgun).
Other differences are that the Euro/APS T body has a different
potentiometer and a different ratio to open the throttle.
The only adjustment to make is to adjust the accelerator cable.
Despite my earlier claims, you cannot mill out the old TBody and
remove that ramp. There is not enough material in the casting!
Now why did they do that for! Furthermore the potentiometer should
also be adjusted..
I also had a chance to look into the VR6 Intake Manifold, boy is that
surface rough! I looked into Extrude Hone before, but they are so
bloody expensive! They want 800 US$ to do the manifold, but they do
claim between 5 and 10% power gain.
Perhaps I should just spend a weekend pollishing it my self, if I
can figure out how to do it...(I kind-a now how but never tried it).
Anyone?
See the file VW_Perf_Time to see the differences.
The car is a bit more powerful, but mostly at the top end, the low
end is softer. It removed some of the "snap" that it used to have.
This may not be so much a loss of power, but rather may have more to
do with the variable or progressive rate at which the TBody now opens.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mcssechfs@dct.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Corrado Stage II vs SLC
Date: 11 Jun 93 11:37:48 +0100
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
> Some of the VAG garages offer a 215bhp Corrado(Auto unfortunately).
>
Details of the above modification are as follows:-
CVR6/3 Nothelle conversion.
This conversion is relatively modest. The standard bores and pistons
are retained giving a displacement of 2861cc. Most of the work is confined to
the cylinder head. Together with the manifold,which is modified to ensure
optimum gas flow. The standard valves are opened by a pair of 274 degree
camshafts. Camshaft design is one of Nothelle's specialities.
The induction system from air intake to inlet manifold is carefully
smoothed and the engine management system has a modified control unit which
compliments the new parameters.
These mods result in the power output being increased from the standard
190bhp to 215bhp. Equally significant is the rise in maximum torque, from 180
to 201 lb ft.
Maximum power is developed at 6000rpm and max. torque at 4250rpm.
0-60 6.6secs
Max speed 155mph
power to weight ratio 181 bhp/ton>
The car sits on 215/40 ZR16 's to get the extra power onto the road.
Hope this of interest. It will be to Jan!!
> Chuck
> Dundee
(signing off 1993, may the
force be with you.)
Article 24742 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: [W] Corrado Queries
Message-ID:
Keywords: SLC
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <2fn83tINNt1r@lynx.unm.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 00:08:37 GMT
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In article <2fn83tINNt1r@lynx.unm.edu> jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>In article jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill) writes:
>John, how do you like the AT chip on the vr6? What effect?
>Initial reports on the vr6 chips were rather negative.
>Considered the new throttle body as yet?
The chip makes some difference, but not that dramatic. The engine
does seems to pull from low RPM's a little better, but then it did
anyway. The high end did improve, I discovered that the engine comes
alive again at about 6000 and starts reving harder again. I got the
most bang for the buck from the APS P-flow airfilter, it makes the
engine sound like a small block. Haven't considered the throttle
body, it's just too expensive for the hp gain in my view. I wonder
if a bunch of VR6's owners could make a group purchase and get any kind
of discount. Back to the chip, no one advertises much of a gain with
chips for VR6 motors, VW probably did ok with the original programming.
I've noticed 1994 Corrados are speed limited to 130mph, if you have
to go faster a chip might be worthwhile. I think it is anyway though.
jh
Article 24714 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: alex@poa.poweropen.org
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: SUPERCHIPS G60 upgrade
Date: 26 Dec 1993 14:06:39 -0600
Organization: PowerOpen Association, Inc.
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Greetings,
Saw an ad for SUPERCHIPS in European Car that mentioned G60 upgrades.
Called them and asked for info.. Received a brochure in the mail. It
is full of silliness! For example...
picutre is of VR6 Corrado, not G60
"...the chassis is very competent and the 4 wheel drive system..."
"...the rev limiter is raised from 5800 RPM to 6500 RPM..."
random grammatical errors
Anyway...
They do offer 7 days' money-back guarantee, and a 12-month warranty (on what,
who knows?). Quite a large list of dealers, including one in Boston, where I live.
Has anyone had any experience with SUPERCHIPS? Their material is a big turn-off,
but maybe the product itself is interesting....
I'm not really tempted to go with them over Neuspeed or AutoThority, but I hadn't
heard any discussion of SUPERCHIPS at all, so thought I would throw this out.
Happy solstice!
Alex
Article 24779 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: mshearer@abel.math.ucla.edu (Michael Shearer)
Subject: Re: [W] Corrado Queries
Message-ID: <1993Dec28.183739.13674@math.ucla.edu>
Keywords: SLC
Sender: news@math.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
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Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 18:37:39 GMT
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In article jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill) writes:
>In article <2fn83tINNt1r@lynx.unm.edu> jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>>In article jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill) writes:
>>John, how do you like the AT chip on the vr6? What effect?
>>Initial reports on the vr6 chips were rather negative.
>>Considered the new throttle body as yet?
>
> The chip makes some difference, but not that dramatic. The engine
>does seems to pull from low RPM's a little better, but then it did
>anyway. The high end did improve, I discovered that the engine comes
>alive again at about 6000 and starts reving harder again. I got the
>most bang for the buck from the APS P-flow airfilter, it makes the
>engine sound like a small block. Haven't considered the throttle
>body, it's just too expensive for the hp gain in my view. I wonder
>if a bunch of VR6's owners could make a group purchase and get any kind
>of discount. Back to the chip, no one advertises much of a gain with
>chips for VR6 motors, VW probably did ok with the original programming.
>I've noticed 1994 Corrados are speed limited to 130mph, if you have
>to go faster a chip might be worthwhile. I think it is anyway though.
>jh
>
I have the AT chip, although right now the stock chip is in the car.
Using 92 octane gas (the highest grade which is readily available in CA),
the following things occur: low end (<3000rpm) improves noticably, above
3000-3500 knovking starts big-time if I'm more than, say, 20% throttle,
gas mileage seems to improve a little. There are a few gas stations
around where I can get higher octane fuel, but it's very expensive,
so I switch the chips out every once in a while.
I've been wondering if the P-flow would be worth buying. Any more
info from John would be helpful (or Jan of course).
Also, if the throttle body was cheeaper, I might give it a try. I
suppose I'd rate my interest level about the same as John's.
Mike
Article 24834 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: [W] Corrado Queries
Message-ID:
Keywords: SLC
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <2fn83tINNt1r@lynx.unm.edu> <1993Dec28.183739.13674@math.ucla.edu>
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In article <1993Dec28.183739.13674@math.ucla.edu> mshearer@abel.math.ucla.edu (Michael Shearer) writes:
>
>I have the AT chip, although right now the stock chip is in the car.
>Using 92 octane gas (the highest grade which is readily available in CA),
>the following things occur: low end (<3000rpm) improves noticably, above
>3000-3500 knovking starts big-time if I'm more than, say, 20% throttle,
>gas mileage seems to improve a little. There are a few gas stations
>around where I can get higher octane fuel, but it's very expensive,
>so I switch the chips out every once in a while.
>I've been wondering if the P-flow would be worth buying. Any more
>info from John would be helpful (or Jan of course).
>Also, if the throttle body was cheeaper, I might give it a try. I
>suppose I'd rate my interest level about the same as John's.
I think the P-flow is a must have. However, I asked AutoThority
about using their chip with the P-flow and the throttle body, and the
salemans eyes (I stopped by in Fairfax) kind of rolled back in his head
and he went into convulsions. He then started babbling about how their
programming can't/wouldn't work with the APS mods, seemed to imply my
engine might fry. Their chip works fine with the P-flow. If you are in
CA and having trouble with pinging, you would probably be much better
off giving APS a call and using their chip instead. Aaron doesn't seem
to be as aggressive in the timing modifications to the map and pinging
should be less of a problem. AutoThority is historically very aggresive
in their programming. They usually will re-program you a new less
agressive chip if you are having problems.
Article 32475 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: e0ewqbwu@tuzo.erin (Roy Kao)
Subject: Oettinger kit for Corrado VR6
Message-ID:
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Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 22:08:25 GMT
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After finding the advertisement in this month's european car, I called
GTA in Quebec about the Oettinger kit for the VR6 engine. You know what,
it's exact same modifications as in the car featured a few months ago
in this very magazine. I called and found out that the kit cost about
$4,500 Cdn. and includes replacement camshafts and chips.
They don't have the correct filter box yet, but Louie, the guy in charge
of H2O cooled VW's, told me that the Neuspeed P-Flo will work fine.
They are also getting a new chromed header from Oettinger Technik. BTW,
the grill that was featured in the article is also available as a kit
for $450 Cdn. The modifications will bump output to about 215 bhp and
about 192 ft. lb. torque. Wowsers!!! I can't wait until my warranty
runs out, who needs an M3 when I can have a 215 bhp VW!!!??? BTW,
the work must be done at a race shop VERY knowledgeable with VW engines
and electronics.
--
* Roy Kao *
* *
* e0ewqbwu@tuzo.erin.utoronto.ca *
Article 32542 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: kafka@cats.ucsc.edu (Gary Andrew Yuen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Oettinger kit for Corrado VR6
Date: 20 May 1994 20:58:00 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
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Distribution: na
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In article <2rj69l$dtt@lipari.usc.edu> jan@lipari.usc.edu (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>In article mvoorhis@zklzz.WPI.EDU (Michael C Voorhis) writes:
>>In article <2rikda$m54@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> kafka@cats.ucsc.edu (Gary Andrew Yuen) writes:
>>> I called GTA a while ago also. That was before they advertised the
>>> kit and the guy I talked to mentioned that was one of the things
>>> available. I think the VW Motorsport VSR manifold will yield more
>>> power though. If you had that, new cams, P-Flow, and ask APS to
>>> create a custom chip from the one that comes with the VSR manifold, I
>>> think you would get more power than from that kit.
>>
>>Where does one get a VW Motorsport intake manifold, if one isn't in
>>Germany though? I can't just order the thing from the dealership, and
>>I've not seen a place running ads for it at any time...
>>
>>What's the cost of the VW Motorsport variable inlet intake manifold in
>>US$, anyway?
>
>AutoTech (see the FAQ for #s) in San Juan Capistrano can get them
>for you (the guy whose used rims I bought for my SLC had one put on)
>and I think New Dimensions was looking at one.
>You can call VWMotorsport directly as well. See the faq...
>
>They are EXPENSIVE, about 2300US$. Comes with a new chip and stuff.
>However, the results are impressive, I think you get around 20Hp
>more at 3000 rpms but it leave the top end power about the same.
The VSR manifold comes with a chip similar to stock that hasn't had
it's fuel and timing curves tuned so I would think that you could ask APS
to make a chip for that manifold and in addition to a few other parts,
you could get more power than from the Oettinger kit which costs about $3200.
Gary
Article 32569 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: Oettinger kit for Corrado VR6
Message-ID:
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <2rikda$m54@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 14:13:23 GMT
Lines: 15
In article mvoorhis@zklzz.WPI.EDU (Michael C Voorhis) writes:
>
>What's the cost of the VW Motorsport variable inlet intake manifold in
>US$, anyway?
Probably a lot more than you want to spend. I heard they around $2000
a pop, if you can find one. I found with my SLC the best and most cost
efficient upgrades to get more power were just a chip and the P-flow.
This combination makes about 190hp, and makes the engine sound great.
I found this level of power adequate, although if I still had it
I probably would have sunk $1200 by now for the Schrick cams. Glad
I sold it.
Article 32578 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: e0ewqbwu@tuzo.erin (Roy Kao)
Subject: Re: Oettinger kit for Corrado VR6
Message-ID:
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Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 22:37:00 GMT
Lines: 38
In article <2rj4jd$dr4@lipari.usc.edu>,
Jan Vandenbrande wrote:
>I sent these guys a fax asking for more info. Haven't received anything
>as yet.
>So they use camshafts, a chip, and another header (exhaust) to get
>more power? How's the idle and at how's the power band move, i.e.,
>at what rpms do we get the gain? How's gas mileage?
>
>Hey Mark H, when are you gonna tell us about your variable inlet manifold?
>Did the EC guys come around as yet?
>
>Jan -- using my school accound because our news server died.
>
>
>--
>-----------------
>Jan Vandenbrande
>jan@lipari.usc.edu (Research address)
>jan@ug.eds.com (Work address)
Jan, I'm at school right now so I don't have the exact data. However,
I'll dig up the old "european car" issue, about March I think, where I
found the article and I'll find out more. All I remember off the top
of my head though, is that it made 215 bhp, I don't know whether it is
SAE or DIN rating. Some people have claimed that the VW Motorsport
intake manifold, at ~$2000 U.S. a shot, along with APS Neuspeed upgrades
is more cost effective than the $3300 U.S. GTA is asking for with
its Oettinger kit, do you agree? I'm not sure that an intake manifold
along with the regular P-Flo, chip, and throttle body upgrades will
be better than replacing the camshafts and working within the engine
than around it. I'd love the hear your comment, in the mean time, I'll
look for that article. I'm not in a huge rush to do the upgrades, I'm
not crazy about voiding my last two years of warranty.
--
* Roy Kao *
* *
* e0ewqbwu@tuzo.erin.utoronto.ca *
Article 35512 of rec.autos.vw:
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From: armstron@crl.com (Edward Armstrong)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Oettinger and the VR6
Date: 13 Jul 1994 11:09:04 -0700
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access
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Message-ID: <301ak0$esb@crl.crl.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crl.com
Summary: VR6
Keywords: VR6
Hi I few weeks ago I noticed a thread started by you Corrado guys on the
Oettinger performance kit for the VR6. Well, I noticed that in the British
rag PERFORMANCE CAR they had an article about just this kit. I'll summarize
what I remember: Basically this kit is the standard performance stuff,
hotter cam and polished and slightly reworked intake and exhaust manifolds.
The writer said the low end was not improved but the mid and high range
were signifcantly improved. 0-60 mph droped a 1/2 second to the low 6
sec range.Power went from 190-->215 hp and torque was up too but I don't
remember the number. Anyway the writer/driver was generally impressed by
this performance upgrade. Price: expensive.
This mag may be hard to find in North American non-urban areas. Its is an in-
teresting forum for small fast cars like VW's etc and has lots of big color
photos. As a side note the article had some history on the Oettinger company.
Seems like they were big in the 80's with Gti and Audi performance parts.
In the 90's they took a nose dive and had to close. Just recently (1992?)
an ex employee reopened on a much smaller scale in the old warehouse.
The warehouse (near Frankfurt) is still appartently stock full of older
VW performance parts (send them over here!) including an engine that will
make your VW Transporter go 125 mph!
--ed
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: New Dimensions
Left by: TIM HILDABRAND Replied # 129
Sent to: VANDENBRANDE Status: Public
Topic: AMS & G60 Woes Rcvd: 12-03-94, 16:56
>Stuff about AMS deleted<
Hey now this sounds like a testimonial for mark at AMS,
but experience with happy customers should be most important
when taking performance advise. The VR6 car you are
experimenting with is equipped similar to ones we work with.
ND's first VR6 testing was done in August 92 on an 92 Passat .
We use all the Neupeed stuff that was available at the time
-p-chip -throttle body, modified air box with K&N filter, a
mildly ported intake manifold, and a ND sport stainless exhaust
system. This car produced 209 hp . The current VR6 test car is a
92 VR6 SLC. This car is equipped as above with the addition of a
Neuspeed p-flow ,of corse now it has the VSR manifold and 268
cams, the result is lost Neuspeed p-chip to use the VSR. The VSR
made good low end improvement but nothing good or bad in the top
end even with the cams. Quarter mile times we as follows- 1) all
Neupeed no VSR or cams 15.4 @90mph 2) w/ 80hp nos 14.3 @ 101 3)
Neuspeed with 268 cams w/80hp nos 14.2 @111
4) no p-chip w/VSR and cams no nos 14.89 @93 all test could
have been better but traction at start was always poor. Sorry
this car has not been dyno tested since it just had neuspeed
p-chip and throttle body at 200 hp. We will try to get some
testing done fully equipped VR6 sometime next year. This test
car has none of the problems you have complained about no
pinging with and without VSR stuff. The performance of the car
is respectfully for the bolt on performance. True the manifold
and cams are too expensive for the gain . The low
end performance is so good the top feels bad because it stays
the same, so if you what low end grunt buy it all. If
performance to the dollar is a concern just do the neuspeed
stuff. More than 210-215 will be hard if legality counts .
CHIPS
Neuspeed chips work, we have dyno tested , they work because
of 20 years dyno experience, knowledge of timing and fuel
curves. Curves that work for performance and reliability needed
for all driving conditions. The process of burning, Give me a
break I bet most of you know that this process is simple. But
who had this knowledge first WHO CARES! If the burning knowledge
was worth royalties other people would be in line far before
Mark would. A division of VW of America came to Aaron for some
custom chip work to help with idle problems on A3 Cabrios. Also
remember that Neuspeed has been making chips for VW's since 1990
when replacable e-proms first appeared in VW's.
Did Mark really say he expected to get 250 hp from cams Hey
this most be a misprint the European ABT 3.1 with cams, chip
and throttle body only gets 240 hp- go figure!!
>Comments on G60s deleted see the G60 archive<
When looking for companies and products for you car, trust is
most important. Neuspeed has been producing good quality
products for a long time and should be around for along time to
come some other people in the business will not be. New
Dimensions has been in the VW business since 1985 -we do full
service and performance work at our shop. We offer a 12 month
and 12,000 mile written warrantee on our work we have to sell
products that work or we have to make them work at our expense,
this does not happen with Neuspeed parts or we would not install
them. We test and install most everything we sell. Research of
performance parts is very important and a smart move on
everyone's part. Our new catalog will contain true test and
proven parts a service only availability from a service company.
I have to say I am slightly opinionated I have been at ND
since 1987. We put a lot of effort to make good products
available. Usually only talking about positive things where ever
possible without slamming another product for there bad points.
Recently I have noticed more calls with customers saying Mark
basically sells his chip by slamming others, and most recently a
turbo customer said Mark said our turbo systems caused too much
stress on the motor and his 16V system would not. Let get
something straight a properly used turbo car can be very
reliable, and abused one will not. We have
over 1,000 units on the road (inc. Callway version) I don't
believe the AMS systems has even sold two. How would someone
with so few systems tested have a right to rip a proven product
, simple you don't have any thing better to do. Mark seems to be
pretty smart when it comes to ideas but he should not try to
succeed by copying and smearing others and others products. Talk
is cheap but I don't believe there is much truth to the smear
claims.
Happy motoring
Joe Funk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From <@camhpp49.ug.eds.com,@mail.uunet.ca:tom.neumann@canrem.com> Tue Oct 11 23:33 PDT 1994
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 20:58:00 -0400
From: tom.neumann@canrem.com (Tom Neumann)
Subject: RE: CORRADO & OTHERS PROB
To: jan@camhpp49 (Jan Vandenbrande)
Message-Id: <60.16716.104.0C1B410E@canrem.com>
Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario)
X-Envelope-To: jan@fshpp1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
Hi Jan!
I was recently speaking with Gunther Schmidt; he races the Jetta GLX
(VR6) quite successfully.
Engine mods allowed in his class are quite minor and he mentioned some
tips for the VR6 engine.
His, out of the box, and before balancing and blue-printing, got 184
hp on the dyno. He tore it down, balanced and blueprinted it and did
two minor modifications: he changed to the K&N air filter (the free
flowing one) and used the Passat manifold piece that connects the
airbox to the intake manifold. He replaced the chip in the engine
management system to eliminate the speed limiter (and swears that's
the only change he made to it!).
The result of the above is 215 hp on the dyno with a good increase in
midrange torque. I mentioned that some people had mixed reults with
the free flowing air filter and he told me the secret of it: He found,
through dyno testing and race experience, that the VR6 engine is quite
sensitvie to the air temperature going into the air intake. When he
just ran the filter in the normal engine compartment lots of hot air
was going into the intake with the result that there was little, if
any, power gain.
He made some ductwork that ducts air directly from the front of the
car into the air filter (in his case on the racing car through the
right headlight assembly) and noticed gains in the power immediately.
You might want to mention this in the FAQ as it sounds like a way that
most people will get some extra power. Obviously they wouldn't want to
remove the headlight, but htere must be other ways to insure the
filter gets fresh, cool air.
Tom
---
* 1st 1.11 #3720 * I sell Volkswagens
Newer additions:
================
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article 5555 of rec.autos.vw:
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Neuspeed VS "the others"
Message-ID:
From: mvoorhis@inferno.WPI.EDU (Michael C Voorhis)
Date: 27 Apr 1995 14:23:22 GMT
References: <3mup8t$8hv@diplomatic.passport.ca>
<3n9ldn$2o0@kelowna.awinc.com>
Organization: RSUC -- Russell Street UNIX & Caffeine
NNTP-Posting-Host: inferno.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: jhamill@tiac.net's message of Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:04:44
Lines: 12
I can't see spending %150 (or $100!) for a Neuspeed K&N fitler that
can be gotten directly from K&N for about $50. Make the metal
retaining bracket yourself (sheet metal, a vice, a drill and a little
patience needed) and pocket the $50 or $100 you're going to save.
Here are two models:
RE-0910, 3" ID, OD from 4 5/8" to 5" and 8" long
RE-0930, 3" ID, OD from 4 5/8 to 6 and 6" long
Mike (mvoorhis@wpi.edu)
86 Jetta GL, 93 Corrado SLC, 67 Beetle
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed May 31 11:42 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 11:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jan Vandenbrande
Subject: Re: VR6 T-body Mods
In-Reply-To: ;
from "Hulda Jowett" at May 30, 95 9:34 pm
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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> Jan, I'm suprised to hear that you had little gain w/ the 2.9 T-B. My
> stock ported one feels great everywhere! I didn't add any material to the
There is feel and there are measurements.
The EuroTB feels a tad softer, especially at the low end but that just
may be due to the progressive mechanism. The high end seemed more
free flowing.
But I am an engineer/scientist/whatever, and so I don't like to
rely on purely subjective impressions (e.g., louder cars seem faster,
brighter TV sets look sharper, etc).
What I usually measure is before and after acceleration figures,
and these obviously do not capture things like throttle responce:
92 SLC + K&N + Syntec
--------------------- [JHV]
2nd: 20-40 mph 3.07 - 3.40 secs
3rd: 40-60 mph 4.60 - 4.80 secs
3rd: 60-70 mph 2.89 secs
4th: 50-70 mph 5.64 secs
92 SLC + TBody + K&N + Syntec
------------------------------ [JHV]
2nd: 20-40 mph 3.42 secs
3rd: 40-60 mph 4.20 - 4.60 secs
My estimated error on these are .2 secs, unclear whether these measurements
are statistically significant.
In my 2nd gear test I got virtually no gain (actually a slow down!)
and in the 3rd gear test I am ahead about .3 secs.
Not much to brag about IMHO. Perhaps there are other things wrong
with the car. Also note that this is without a chip and
w/o a PFlow using just a replacement K&N airfilter element and
the Helmholtz resonators removed.
Some say the TBody does not get its fullest potential unless you have
the PFlow...
> away with out going through. How is the 2.9 progressive? I thought the
> ramps in the stock T-B are what made it progressive. There's a small ramp
The Euro TB does not have any of these air ramps. Instead of attaching
the accelerator cable directly onto the cam attached to the throttle,
there is a 2 (3?) link mechanism that slows opening of the throttle
from the closed position and speeds it up towards WOT.
With this TBody, the car does not have this "jumpy" feel at idle.
--
o ___|___ [\\] | Jan Vandenbrande jan@ug.eds.com
__0 /\0/ /-------\ _ | "For once I'd like to encounter an alien
\<,_ O \\ (_________) .#/_\_. | being that is not immune to bullets"
(_)/ (_) // [_] [_] |_(_)_| | The Brigadier, Dr. Who.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue May 30 18:45 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 21:34:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Re: VR6 T-body Mods
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Jan, I'm suprised to hear that you had little gain w/ the 2.9 T-B. My
stock ported one feels great everywhere! I didn't add any material to the
dimple in mine. There is actually Quite a bit of metal that can be ground
away with out going through. How is the 2.9 progressive? I thought the
ramps in the stock T-B are what made it progressive. There's a small ramp
on the top which I also ground away. No polishing, just cleaned it up
afterwards with a dremel. I was always led to believe that polishing was
a waste of time since the air along the walls is stagnant. later
Brian A. Jowett
93 VR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri May 26 20:38 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 23:31:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: VR6 throtle body mods
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I'm new here so you may already know this. You can port the stock t-body
on VR6s. I did mine just the other day, and I am very pleased with the
results. Throtle response is improved from idle on up, and high rpm is
better than ever.
You can only grind so far, so its not as big as the 2.9 t-body. But hey
it dosn't cost $350 either.
I also made my own cone type air filter. K&N part no. RE0810 fits
excellent, costs about $45.00. Make a braket yo-self. Oh yeah, no air
pump on my car. Hope to save somone some money. See ya.
Brian 93 SLC
hjowett@nasc.mass.edu
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jun 14 14:10 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 16:57:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Re: P-Flo thoughts....and a question.
In-Reply-To: <9506141811.AA25978@csupomona.edu>
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Who needs a machine shop to make a braket? I bent a bracket at home in my
vise. I then painted it flash red to match the car. The bracket attaches
to the front of the filter and mounts on the rear bolt for the radiator
support. It looks waaay better than the tuners, plus it's one of a kind.
I take pride in my car and the components I put on it. Anyone can bolt
parts on that someone else makes. But it's really cool when your at the
shows, to have people ask you, who makes that neat filter?
But hey, to each his own. If you feel it's neccesary to spend $120 for a
filter, go right ahead. I spent the $80 I saved on a front stressbar.
Brian
93 VR6
>
> >I'll post this again even though you've probably seen it. You can make
> >your own performance filter for both VR6s and G60s. K&N part no. RE0810
> >fits excellent and costs about $47 ( VR6 ). For G60s I've seen people at
> >shows useing the the Mustang filter from K&N, not sure what the part no.
> >is. Make a pretty bracket yourself.
>
> >Brian A. Jowett
> >93 VR6
>
> Since I don't have access to a machine shop, I wanted to have the fixup place
> make a bracket for me. It turns out that it would cost about 40-50 bucks to
> make one, so there would be little to no savings. I though, going cheap on my
> Corrado would really bother my conscience. People, we did not buy a Corrado to
> save money.
>
>
> Lawrence Wu
> LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
>
> Black/Black Corrado SLC
> "...racers are like Congressmen. They
> wake up, first thing they say is 'How
> can I get more power today?'"
>
>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jun 14 15:13 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 14:20:41 TZ
From: Scott Stiles
Subject: More P-Flo
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What I really think the "ideal" P-Flo installation is missing is a
shield/funnel that would serve 2 purposes:
1) direct the cold air from the cold-air inlet (rear of the
headlamp assy.) towards the filter
2) shield the filter from the hot-air surrounding the engine
it might not protect it completely from convected heat
but it would protect it from radiant.
I think the major drawback to the P-Flo is the cold-air
issue, if someone on the list (more motivated than me)
could hack together a shield it would be pretty
marketable me thinks.
I've mocked up something really basic with cardboard, I
would think you could do it with a single piece of galv.
sheet metal (or stainless). My dad suggested using
a cookie sheet, not a bad idea...
Basically, it's just a sheet with a bend at the right point
to shield both the side and the top of the filter.
Scott.
scottst@microsoft.com
93 VR6
95 Cabrio (I'm not paying for it, thank god)
| > I put the Neuspeed P-Flo on my car this past Friday and
have enjoyed
| > lighting up the throttle through the tunnels on I-64 in East Louisville.
| > Man that sound is loud. Pure joy. This is what I miss from my 4cyl
| > VWs....they sounded like race cars....now my VR6 does too. This has
| > prompted my friend to think twice about leaving his G60 stock. The
| > growling wail is just music, but yet if you dont throttle hard, the car
| > sounds 90% the same as it did before. The car is wild when you want it to
| > be, but civil when you need it to be.
| >
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Jun 20 20:10 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 22:59:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: VR6 Mass Airflow Sensor Mods
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I removed the screens from my MAS today. The car is louder, might be
quiker even. I did not time the runs. Jan, would you care to do some?
Instuctions for removing - Remove MAS from car, Remove large C clips that
hold the screens in place, remove screens, put MAS back in car. Easy. Not
permanent. Oh yeah, the cooling fins are there, I'm leaving them alone.
Brian 93 VR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jun 21 09:37 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 12:10:58 -0400
From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: VR6 Turbo is on the way
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In a message dated 95-06-20 23:10:58 EDT, you write:
>Just recieved info from Tim on the VR6 turbo. Without the intercooler
>you
>get 248hp, and 280lbft of tourqe at 3000RPM.
It is also at 6 psi so we know what we can do with an intercooler and 10 psi.
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
**TT**
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jun 28 01:20 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 01:11:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lawrence Wu
Subject: Re: P-FLO kit
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>>I installed the P-FLO filter kit last Friday from APS. It probably did give
>>me at least 5 more hp or one big reason. As in this months European Car, the
>>screen on the air intake to the filter box was clogged with leaves and one
>>huge moth. I've got 40K on the car. They suggested to remove the prefilter
>>screen. I agree. You'll still have a big filter there that if a big bug lands
>>on it won't change the filter surface area as much as on the screen.
>>
>>As for the K&N, it is nice. Is the bracket worth 50 bucks. Well it made
>>installation in 20 minutes a snap, and it is good quality and not sheet metal
>>like I would have made.
>How do you like the sound of the P-FLO.. I'm also thinking about adding one,
>but am
>concerned that it's overly loud and would get annoying after a while..
You can only hear it when you are past half throttle. It's not annoying, since
it's only when the engine is being pushed, plus it sounds so damn fine.
Rode in a Ferrari Dino today, and then thought to myself, "It doesn't sound
any more musical than the VR6 with the K&N."
I like the construction of the Neuspeed bracket, but if you want to save some
money, and get the large K&N (I swapped the Neuspeed one for this one) or the
regualr one, call Gilbert at The Place. They make the brackets too. I think he
said he'd sell the whole set for around $85, if I recall right, but calling
him would probably be the most accurate way of getting the info. Their number
is (818)966-4888
....Now back to the show...
Lawrence Wu
LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Black/Black Corrado SLC
"...racers are like Congressmen. They
wake up, first thing they say is 'How
can I get more power today?'"
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jul 7 15:48 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 07 Jul 1995 18:32:55 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cams
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I also posted some questions on VR6 cams earlier on but here's the extent of
my knowledge on this subject:
Cams with a wilder profile are indeed the next logical choices after the
standard Neuspeed mods, since the VSR intake manifold is rather pricey, and
engine bore & stroke, or cylinder head port & polish, are pretty radical and
costly stuff.
Also, the Corrado's stock exhaust system is so good that most attempts to
improve it by going to larger diameter pipes actually result in power loses
at the lower rpms,
though Eurosport & Autotech's exhaust systems will net you 5 to 7 hp, at the
expense of more noise, which some people might like!
Anyway, I digress. Schrick cams? Good stuff! Schrick has a strong reputation
in Germany and also do grinds for prepped BMWs, etc. I've talked to a
couple of people with the 260 Schricks in their Corrados, they were generally
very happy with their choices, reported an extra boost of 10 hp or so above
4000 rpm and a well-behaved idle, coupled with a menacing growl when the
engine comes on cam. The 268 should give you even more peak power higher up,
the downside being a slightly rougher idle...
ABT's 268? They are one of the most repected German tuners so I'm sure the
cam's of the highest quality. It's also lighter and cheaper than the
Schrick... However, the cams are not manufactured by ABT, but by Sugo (may
not be the correct spelling), and I've been warned about the Sugo cams having
rigidity problems due to their hollow construction. Also this cam is
configured ideally for ABT's 3.0 Litre engine conversion, not for a stock
2.8L VR6...
P.S. Ron's Parts are the official Schrick importers but you can also get them
from APS, VW Specialties, European Import Performance, AMS, Autotech, etc.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Jul 8 22:59 PDT 1995
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Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 01:51:35 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: Air intake improvements?
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Just wanted to pass on some comments from AOL's Corrado message board re this
topic:
******************************************************************************
**********
From: Swede6969
I constructed a air intake for my 91 CRX si once and it made a noticeable
differance in preformance. What I did was I bought the tubing for air
conditioning for homes. I attached it to the original air intake housing and
pulled it so it was under the front spoiler, ram air i guess. It worked for
me and I bet if you put a little more time and effort in the results would be
even greater. Just an idea I thought i'd share with you guys.
******************************************************************************
**********
From: SizzerHand
Actually, UNIQUEVR6, in one of the VW FAQs there is discussion about a fellow
who has done just what you are asking about to his Jetta GLX - apparently the
VR6 works better with COLD air anyway, and while the P-Flow is quick and
dirty, and reduces airflow restriction, it's not as good as it COULD be if
you could get COLD air to the car. They just updated the FAQs, and they're
also on the WEB - have you gotten the WEB for AOL and gotten to rec.autos.vw
in the newsgroups?
******************************************************************************
**********
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Jul 8 22:48 PDT 1995
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 01:39:29 -0400
From: HAPPIG@aol.com
Subject: Re: whistling noise when accelerating
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wilfred@io.org Wrte:
>Hi I have a 1994 Corrado VR6, and right now it has 8000Km. I have this funny
>whistling noise whenever I accelerate from 2000 rpm to 3000 rpm. The sound
Well, almost every VR6 that have a P-Flo experience this whistling. It's
from the air rushing through the air mass flow meter or the throttle body.
It's like blowing air on an empty bottle neck and you get this whoooo
whistling. Well, it's something like that. The whistling occurs only when
the throttle is partially open (slowly accelerating). At least that's what
heppens with my P-Flo. If you slam on the gas, the whistling will go away.
So, if what I mentioned is true, then I won't worry about it.
Hope I helped!
Happig@aol.com
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jul 13 19:26 PDT 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 22:12:56 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: 3.1 Litre & other VR6 gossip
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Someone up in Canada has already done a "3.1" Litre conversion on his VR6
(a Passat GLX) - apparently it has all the goodies: ABT crank & 82.5mm
forged pistons, VSR, 280 cams, modified chip (programmed by AMS), ported &
polished head with 3 angle valve job, Supersprint headers, Remus exhaust tip,
throttle body, P-Flo, etc, etc. Hasn't been dynoed yet but EC is going to do
an article on it, I believe. I've called him a couple of times but he wasn't
in so I don't know the exact details, but sounds like he's got a really great
( and expensive!) setup!
Other gossip (Disclaimer: these are rumours, not necessarily true or
accurate! Some of this info are quite a few months old, I've just been too
lazy to post them earlier):
Darrell from Techtonics has all the mods in for his exhaustive lab/dyno
testing (VSR, cams, etc) but it's going to take a while before we hear
anything - am looking forward to seeing some relatively objective
measurements of what the various mods out on the market can really offer us!
He's also working on a ported/polished cylinder head, about $2000 on an
exchange basis.
Speaking of heads, a number of shops are also offering prepared VR6 heads
on an exchange basis, including GTA of Quebec (4 angle 50/50 job) and EIP of
Maryland (bigger intake valves).
You've all heard about ND of Santa Clara's exciting oil cooler kit (sounds
simpler to install than the Neuspeed ones, about $360) and the 11.5" brake
kit (Ferrodo pads? May be rather pricey initially?) from our TurboTim here,
but did you know that ND are finishing tests on their (2.25"?) exhaust system
which features Borla mufflers with a dual tip option - makes a nice, deep but
civilized sound and will offer increased performance without sacrificing
anything from the bottom end (should be available by August/September).
Autotech, EuroSport, ABT, Oetinger and Supersprint also offer exhaust
systems, with one being currently developed by Techtonics.
Supersprint headers are finally available for the VR6 via Ron's Parts in
Vancouver, but you may have to wait a little while to get hold of yours. I
hear their exhaust system has a fake cat converter look-alike (!).
Dana from Autotech in Southern California is working on dual piston
calipers for the VR6 brakes...
NEVA will be coming out with a Carbon Fibre tie-bar and hood for the
Corrado in addition to their more cosmetic offerings. They even have a 17"
rim, flywheel and pistons in the works, though I'm not sure if carbon fibre
is the ideal material for these components, especially in street use...but
they do have some good stuff which I hope they'll research and develop for
VWs (Porsche is their main bread and butter market).
If you want your Corrado to behave a bit more like a domestic drag machine
(as much as a front wheel drive can, anyway) than a top-end Autobahn
wundercruiser, have you considered replacing your ring and pinion with one
from the European 16-valve Corrados? Of course, a taller 5th gear and Quaife
differential would help balance things out...talk to GTA, Autotech or AMS
about the ring and pinion.
Well, that's all for now - anyone heard of anything else for the Corrado
or VR6? Please tell me that the prototypical 24-valve head is finally
available or that a reliable turbo VR6 is being put together...;-)
UniqueVR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jul 13 19:24 PDT 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 22:12:51 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: VR6 throttle body
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Nick, I also talked to Velocity a while ago about boring out the throttle
body (the Neuspeed one, not the stock), they said that would leave the walls
too thin so they decided instead to make up a different, bigger one slated
for production around September. Don't know if this bigger volume throttle
body will have that much of an effect on a stock VR6 except at high rpms (may
even reduce some power lower down...), but should complement any bigger
displacement conversions nicely!
BTW, Extrudehone told me that they do not do any work on throttle bodies and
did not recommend extrude honing the VSR because of the flap between the 2
runners...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jul 13 12:40 PDT 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:33:41 -0700
From: NSnyder@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (Nick Snyder)
Subject: VR6 throttle body
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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I called Velocity today about the T-body they are making for the VR6...it
will be bigger than
the typical European ones that are on the market from the other tuners. It
will be out at the
end of summer for around $370.00 or so. It's supposed to be about 68-74mm
(i think that's what he said)
Anyway if any of you are interested call Velocity (310-643-0005) and tell
them you want to be put on
the list of VR6 owners, and they will notify you when it's completed. I
don't want to risk messing mine
up by trying to modify it myself.
NSnyder@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com
>>93 Corrado SLC<<
"Porsche performance at a VW price"
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jul 12 18:23 PDT 1995
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 17:16:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gary Andrew Yuen
Subject: Re: VR6 throttle body
In-Reply-To: <01HSSFH8DYGY001KQB@UG.EDS.COM>
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: Jan Vandenbrande
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On Wed, 12 Jul 1995, Jan Vandenbrande wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Jul 1995, Kenneth Finnegan wrote:
> >
> > > >In a message dated 95-07-11 20:08:30 EDT, you write:
> > > Abrasive flow porting (whereby abrasive material with the consistency
> > > of silly putty is forced through the passages) seems to be the current
> > > pinnacle of porting technology in terms of both effectiveness and
> > > cost.
> >
> > Is it easy to do that yourself? I've heard Extrude Hone on the VR6
> > intake manifold gives about the same results as a VSR for less than half
> > the price. If it could be a DIY thing, then I'm there.
>
> I actually looked into ExtrudeHone, and if you have actual data for
> a VR6, not for a Camaro or a Mustang, I'd like to get a copy.
> ExtrudeHone is not something you do your self. They use high powered
> pumps to press abrasive putty through your manifold.
> For a VR6 manifold it costs between 800-1000US$. Not cheap.
The only person I've talked to so far is a guy a Motronix
Motorsports in Canada. He says 20hp and 17 ft-lbs of torque. He said it
was about $1000 plus about $200 for the fuel enrichment kit that he
recommends for the job. He would be the best place to look for info, or
maybe Extrude Hone directly. I think other shops have done it also (Ed?).
Gary
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jul 17 19:07 PDT 1995
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:42:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jan Vandenbrande
Subject: Re: Questions on unproven mods...
In-Reply-To: <950716062121_115884775@aol.com>; from "HAPPIG@aol.com" at Jul 16,
95 6:21 am
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> UniqueVR6 wrote:
> >1) Is anyone familiar with the "Tornado"? This is a device with fins that
Stuff like this been around for a while...
About 15 years ago they came out with these thimbles drilled with holes
that you would drop between the manifold and the carb. It would
swirl the mixture better.
Some Euro consmumer agency checked it out and said it did nothing at best
and made things worse in the worst case.
Reason is simple...you are creating a slight restriction in your
airstream.
In carburated cars, where the manifolds are "wet" the swirl may help
fuel evaporation, but in fuel injected cars where you may be several
feet before the combustion chamber and injectors that atomize the
fuel, I cannot see how much good it would do.
> But the thing that would really improve P-Flo sound and maybe performance
> is an aluminum pipe leading from the throttle body to the mass air flow
> sensor. My cousin's 91 integra had a K&N conical filter with stock rubber
In the case of the VR6 that may actually help...I was talking to
an old "race car" maker (go karts, Baja, Formula cars, etc)
When he looked at the "harmonica style elbow" between the air mass
sensor and the intake manifold he laughed and commented that I should
start there. He suggested replacing it with a smoothly bent pipe.
One problem is that there are a bunch of other tubes hanging from that
damn thing.
Actually, if you have a look at the VR6 Golfs...that elbow is much
smoother, perhaps because it's cheaper to make but I wonder
if it'll fit and whether it would help power.
Talking of intake manifolds...ever seen one made out of a thermohardend
plastic. The whole thing is injected molded with all additional
stuff molded in. Awesome. No porting or polishing needed!
The surface finish is very good and the whole thing weighs next to
nothing. I immagine the manufacturing costs are less (because several
car makers are getting into it), but I wonder how much
the set up costs are because the machine to make them is very complex.
--
o ___|___ [\\] | Jan Vandenbrande jan@ug.eds.com
__0 /\0/ /-------\ _ | "Autoracing, mountain climbing and
\<,_ O \\ (_________) .#/_\_. | running of the bulls are sports, the
(_)/ (_) // [_] [_] |_(_)_| | rest are mere games", Hemmingway.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jul 20 20:52 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:35:57 -0400
From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bigger throttle body
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In a message dated 95-07-19 14:44:24 EDT, you write:
>Just talked to Velocity, looks like they are currently not allocating any
>time into developing a bigger bore throttle body for the VR6 due mostly to a
>perceived lack of demand and a small market! For those of you who would
like
>an alternative to the Neuspeed option, would definitely help if we were to
>show them that Corrado owners are significant if a minority in the motorcar
>community. If they get enough calls (310-643-0005, Los Angeles) expressing
an
>interest, I believe they will put some time into moving this from the design
>stage into production.
Bigger bore throttle bodies are available from us. We (ND) can get them for
$250 and they are made by ELP. They have not done one yet but will once we
send it to them. The say 3.5mm increase but we do not think thats possible.
Will have to get one sent out to them and see. They did a G-60 one and it
worked quite nice. We did not get a chance to dyno it. We will have to test
the VR6 TB and hope to do it in a while.
**TT**
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Aug 1 08:09 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 01 Aug 1995 10:56:30 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Rod Ratios
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As I sit here twiddling my fingers and impatiently waiting for the work on
my rebuilt motor to be completed, my mind fell to pondering, how much of an
adverse effect would the reduced rod ratio for this reworked engine have on
its smoothness, redline and reliability?
Let's see, the super long rods in the VR6 are supposedly one of the main
reasons why this narrow angle vee engine is so smooth, free-reving, durable
and clean in the emissions department.
According to James Sly's Jan 1995 article in EC, "Rod ratio = Connecting
rod length / Crankshaft stroke", where 1.65 is considered by many engine
builders to be the minimum desirable figure.
1) Stock VR6: Rod ratio = 1.8 (164 mm / 90.3 mm)
2) Modified VR6: Rod ratio = 1.7 (164 mm / 96.5 mm)
As illustrated above, increasing the stroke another 6.2 mm as per the ABT
crankshaft kit would decrease the rod ratio since the stock rods remain the
same length of 164 mm. This should increase torque and low end grunt, as
expected, but may it also increase emissions & piston wear, and reduce top
end revs & smoothness?
Edward
UniqueVR6
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Date: Wed, 02 Aug 1995 16:26:21 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: 3.1 Litre VR6 update #1
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Hello, people, for those of you who have expressed an interest in the
status of my ongoing 3.1 Litre project, preliminary flowbench results have
come in and I'm rather excited, so just had to share the following with you!
The 106 cfm figures I posted in an earlier message are probably not
completely accurate, but what I can reveal to you folks before anyone else
(i.e. European Car) is that my new head with the 42 mm intake valves (stock
ones are about 39.4 mm), modified intake manifold and a pair of Schrick 268
cams has a * 40% * increase in airflow over the stock VR6 head with stock
cams & manifold...
Of course we won't really know what this all means until the work on
engine is completed and it is dynoed/driven, but I'm confident that we are
(conservatively) talking about at least 240 hp for the final engine output,
with a much broader torque curve than stock!
EIP started boring the block this week, and the assembly/balancing will
take place after that. My only regret is that I don't personally get to see
all the new parts and their installation (just the $$$ appearing on my credit
card statements!) since we are doing a coast-to-coast engine swap.
Since my baby's the guinea pig for this project, most of the major kinks
should be ironed out by the time any of you feel like embarking on something
similar or exploring even more radical avenues...I'll try to share what we
learn from this first attempt at exploiting more fully the amazing potential
of the VR6 with those of you who are interested!
Cheers, :o)
Edward
"UniqueVR6@aol.com"
P.S. One of my goals for this project was to elevate SOME parameters of our
beloved Corrado's performance to Porsche 911 (non-turbo) or BMW M3 levels for
a VW-level price...
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sat Aug 12 09:42 PDT 1995
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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 12:34:53 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: * Dyno Results *
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Just got my car back with the ND oil cooler installed. Cool! (literally as
well as figuratively). Look out for an EC tech procedure article with
photos on this soon if you prefer to install it yourself (there's less room
on a VR6 but should be more straightforward than the Neuspeed version). Will
post results later, but initial observations is that the oil temp now runs at
least 10 to 18 degrees lower, with the biggest differences occuring when the
engine is being flogged hard and the vehicle's moving at some speed...
Oh, here are the preliminary results from the ND dyno. Haven't analysed
them properly yet, but looks like the factory airbox with a K&N filter
element makes at least as much power (actually a bit more at the low and mid
end!) as the P-flo and peaks at around 5500 rpm, but the P-flo has the
advantage higher up as it keeps going past redline. These observations of
course apply to a Corrado VR6 with the P-chip and Neuspeed throttle body
already installed...
This correlates in general with my subjective personal driving experience
- the car felt slightly less sluggish in the lower middle rpms with the K&N
in the airbox (better velocity, lower air temperatures?), but seem to open up
more eagerly around, and beyond, redline with the P-flo (better
breathing?)...
Assuming a conservative formula of Engine hp = Wheel hp * 1.25, then we
expect to see at least 200bhp for the P-Flo, P-chip & throttle body
combination. If Torque = Engine hp x 5252 / rpm, then we're getting around
205 lbs/ft at 4500 rpm.
Interestingly enough, ND's exhaust system on a stock VR6 GTI comes close
to these figures for the Neuspeed mods. I wonder what the ND exhaust and
Neuspeed combination would do for the VR6?! Comments, Tim?
As for the other dyno figures, looks like the K&N filter element delivers
more hp than the Amsoil in the top end. Also the Tornado device didn't seem
to have made much of a difference either way. On a slightly negative note, I
called the Tornado people after the dyno results to request a refund (they
supposedly have a 30 day money back guarantee), but they gave me a hard time
saying such things as "Dyno figures don't mean anything because the car is
not moving" (uh, didn't they themselves use dyno figures to "prove" their
product's effectiveness in their ads?) and "well, we have thousands of very
happy customers and the magazines rate the Tornado as being the best" (hmm,
just because some people like it doesn't mean I have to like it also,
especially if my tests & experience with hp & mpg doesn't support your
impressive claims)...
Edward
***************************************************************************
1992 Corrado VR6, w/Neuspeed P-Chip and Throttle body
(No changes in the Corrado for both dyno runs except for ND oil cooler for
8/10 and as noted below):
Ambient Temp: 74-80 F (8/10/95) Not recorded for 6/27 (cooler?)
Humidity: 77% (8/10/95) Not recorded for 6/27
Date of Dyno: 8/10/95 (K&N, Amsoil, Tornado), 6/27/94 (P-flo)
Location : New Dimensions
RPM HP HP HP HP
P-Flo K&N Amsoil Amsoil + Tornado
------ ----- ------ -------- ----------------------
3,000 81.0 83.1 83.0 83.0
3,500 99.0 103.0 101.5 102.1
4,000 123.3 122.1 124.8 122.5
4,500 138.9 140.3 139.2 139.0
5,000 148.3 152.5 151.1 151.0
5,500 155.0 159.2 156.4 156.3
6,000 156.1 158.0 156.7 156.0
6,500 160.7 n/a n/a 140.0
***************************************************************************
From UniqueVR6@aol.com Tue Aug 15 11:48 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:40:46 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: * Dyno Results * (addendum)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM, corrado-l@teleport.com
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> I am sure your note has already made it into the hands
>of Aaron, Mark and Dana, and they are ready to shoot you at the
>next opportunity they have. :->
Can't wait to be shot down! Actually I'd be quite honoured should these VW
tuner giants pay attention to someone ordinary like me ;o) As an addendum
to my * Dyno Results * post, may I add that some caution should be exercised
in their interpretation, and that we should be aware of the following:
1) Since there is often a significant variation in engine output between
cars of the same model, these test results should be interpretated as an
INDICATION only of the RELATIVE effects of the Neuspeed P-Flow vs the Factory
Airbox with a high-flow filter, on a Neuspeed throttle body & P-Chip equipped
1992 Corrado VR6 under those test conditions. No dyno measurements had been
taken of the same test car in a stock state BEFORE any of these Neuspeed
modifications were installed.
2) The factory airbox was not in a completely stock condition for the K&N
and Amsoil tests since I had removed the snorkel located in the lower front
(the one with the mesh screen filter) to improve flow. We do not have any
results here for the Neuspeed P-chip and throttle body combination with a
completely stock factory airbox & stock filter.
3) Both dyno runs were made with the same equipment (as far as I am aware
of) and at the same physical location. There were no additional modifications
to the engine between 6/27/94 and 8/10/95, other than the ND oil cooler kit
being installed before the 8/10/95 session. This in itself may have had some
impact on the readings. In addition, other parameters such as the engine
breaking in (about 13000 miles on 6/27 and 26000 on 8/10), differences in
petrol/gas and oil quality, spark plug conditions, etc may have affected the
measurements somewhat?
4) The ambient temp and humidity were not recorded for the 6/27/94 dyno
with the P-Flow, P-chip, throttle body. All I remember is that the run was
initiated at about 6:30pm, and that it was a dry and fairly mild day.
5) We look forward to Darrell's dyno results from testing the plethora of
VR6 performance enhancements currently available. Perhaps his extensive
research will pick up pace if enough of us VR6 enthusiasts will let
Techtonics know that there is a significant number of people out there who
would be very interested in seeing these results...
Edward
UniqueVR6@aol.com
From UniqueVR6@aol.com Tue Aug 15 18:48 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 21:45:02 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: * Dyno Results * (2nd addendum)
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Jan, another thing to note is that it's pretty obvious the K&N filter does
better in the horsepower department than the Amsoil above 5000 rpm, according
to the results. What these dyno figures don't show however, is that the K&N
might also let more dirt in than the Amsoil...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Aug 16 17:35 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:21:56 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Bigger VR6 throttle body
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Guess people from this list must have been calling Velocity Sport Tuning
in southern California - Jeff told me that up to 2 to 3 weeks ago, there have
only been a few inquiries re VR6 mods and so they have not given it much
priority. However, because of a recent increase in demand/interest, they
will be testing a larger VR6 throttle body with a bigger throat & plate (i.e.
not just boring out the stock or Neuspeed one) by the end of the month, size
will be from anywhere from 64mm to 70mm (stock is 64mm).
If test results look good (i.e. low end is not compromised), they will be
able to sell an unit sometime in September. The downside is that estimated
cost is a whopping $400-450! Any news re the ELP version, Tim?
Velocity also claims to have made up a set of 42mm intake and 35mm exhaust
valves for the VR6 head (stock = 40mm / 33mm?)...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Aug 18 01:22 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 01:11:28 -0700
From: lwu2@csupomona.edu (Lawrence Wu)
Subject: Canadian front spoiler
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Date sent: 18-AUG-1995
Anyone know if the Canadian Corrados have the European spoilers (the bigger
ones), or the US ones? I'm going up to Canada really soon, so I may pick one up
there.
BTW I just tried the APE chip and I really like it. It makes the engine run
smoother and the car more drivable. No pings at all.
Lawrence Wu
LWU2@CSUpomona.edu
Black/Black Corrado SLC
"Quicker than a beaver, hotter than a fever"
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Aug 21 12:44 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 13:07:02 -0400
From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: VR6 exhaust
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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In a message dated 95-08-19 01:09:06 EDT, you write:
>I was wondering if anyone with the VR6 has changed their exhaust system? I
>remember Aaron at Neuspeed telling me that there would be no benefit, since
>the stock exhaust is free flowing and has a good diameter piping already.
>What
>have your experiences been?
>
>
Aaron will be testing one of our systems soon as we have them ready to ship.
We have been test fitting the twin tips for the GLX and just got started on
the G-60. Will keep you posted on results. Listed below are results from our
GTI VR6 system.
A3 Golf GTI VR6 bone stock
stock with ND exhaust only
numbers are wheel hp
3000 77.6 81.3
for engine hp x1.25
3500 95.7 100.0
4000 118.6 119.6
4500 131.8 137.9
5000 140.6 146.4
5500 144.2 153.5
6000 142.6 157.2
**TT**
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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 01:14:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Salvage yard oil cooler
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Well here's another one my money saving ideas. Early Saab 900 Turbos have
a factory add-on oil cooler that may be adaptable to our VWs. I got one
off of a friends parts car. Interestingly, it looks almost exactly like
the oil coolers pictured in NDs catalog. The adaptor looks exact, and the
cooler looks like the Mocal thats pictured also.
It looks as though for now, the stock oil to water cooler would have to
be removed for its installation. I have bolted the adaptor in place on an
8V motor I have sitting in my garage, so it will fit G60s, and since the
VR6 uses the same stock cooler, I don't see a problem with bolting it in
place on it.
Now I Know it sounds silly ( and posibly disastrous ) to be installing
used oil cooler parts, but they are off of a Saab. Saabs are well built,
and I doubt very much that they would be useing second rate parts on a
Turbo motor. I called the local dealer and i can purchae new hoses and a
T-stat for about $50. That should eliminate any worry in my head.
Tim are there any identifying marks i may be able to find on these
pieces so that I may fin out who made them? Also, the cooler measures 4
3/4 by 6 1/2, is it big enough to do the job?
Brian 93 VR6
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Aug 27 02:27 PDT 1995
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Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:34:36 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: *3.1 litre twin-turbo VR6*
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Just chatted with Richie - for those of you who missed an earlier post of
mine, this is the VW enthusiast up in Canada who's done things to his VR6
that would make my 3.1 project car look like a dinky econo-car in comparison!
For example:
1) First, Rich started with the Neuspeed mods (P-flo, throttle body, P-chip)
and suspension stuff. Some improvements over stock but nothing to write home
about.
2) He next added a pair of Schrick 260 cams. Not bad especially higher up
in the powerband but somehow something was still missing...
3) Then Rich popped in the VSR manifold and Schrick 268...WOW, now we're
talking! Instant useful power coming on around 3000rpm, and a soul-stirring
roar as the VSR butterfly flap spins open @ 4000rpm! He commented that this
combination was quite an eye-opener in terms of real-world performance gains.
4) Now, just for fun, let's drop in that 3.1 litre bored and stroked
engine... Whilst we're about it, why not port n' polish the Neuspeed
throttle body & cylinder head, match-porting the intake & exhaust. Hmm, how
about replacing the factory exhaust with a Supersprint system complete with
ported headers and free-flowing mufflers To harness all that power, let's
add a Quaife differential, lightened flywheel, Sachs Sports clutch and
heavy-duty pressure plate. Now, don't forget those *dual-piston* caliper
brakes, and 17" rims with the 215/40ZR17 super rubber to tame that "VR6
engine on steroids". And of course a special order to Aaron for a
custom-programmed Neuspeed chip for the whole system! The party's about to
begin...talk about gobs of creamy smooth power from the lower midrange up,
yet free-reving to 7000rpm and beyond...pretty sick, eh? (I'm drooling
already at the thought, even though I haven't sat in Rich's car - yet!)
5) Wait, that's just for starters, the best part's yet to come - in addition
to Schrick heavy-duty valve springs, VW Motorsport steel synchro rings and
other esoteric goodies, Rich is already working with Ron's Parts on a *16 psi
twin-turbo* 3.1 VR6 (possibly incorporating a Garrett T03 turbocharger) which
will use shorter Carillo connecting rods to reduce the compression ratio, and
is at the same time keeping an eye on the 24-valve prototype VR6 head which
VW announced and displayed 2 weeks ago! This 3.1 twin-turbo terror is slated
to humiliate the competition by the end of the year, if the engine doesn't
blow up (yes, the 16 psi estimate was NOT a misprint) before then!
Well, fellow enthusiasts, looks like Rich is rather serious about VR6
performance, which is really smashing! Even if most of us can not afford to
do even 10% of what he's put in his project car, it's super just dreaming and
seeing how far up on the performance ladder one could elevate the VR6 to! I
also mentioned the Corrado group to Rich, and he's definitely interested in
coming down to California sometime to talk shop with us and let us take a
look/ride (and dare I hope, drive?) in his super VR6!
Anyway, as you can see, my enthusiasm was indeed sparked and so I had to
rush-email this before I came down to earth. So, please excuse any sloppy
writing or inaccuracies on my part, it's 1:35 am but I just had to share this
with all of you...
Cheers,
Edward
UniqueVR6
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Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 14:34:49 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: *3.1 litre twin-turbo VR6*
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An addendum to my 3.1 litre VR6 post:
Richie is currently running Goodyear GS-D P225/35ZR17s, not P215/40-17s as
I had previously reported. He admits that this combination was put together
more for cosmetic reasons (pencil-thin band of rubber) than for pure
performance since the Goodyears give decent but not ultimate performance in
terms of grip. Interestingly enough, he runs 15" on the track, but switches
back to the 17" on the street.
Also his Passat GLX 3.1 litre setup has not been dynoed as yet - 300bhp
figures have been loosely quoted for his engine, but Rich is a little
skeptical of such claims. He does strongly recommend the 3.1 litre
conversion, if one could afford it, as the real-world performance gains in
acceleration throughout most of the powerband are quite significant! Also he
reports that there has been absolutely no problems in terms of reliability so
far even though he regularly pushes his VR6 extremely hard, on both the track
and street (I believe he's claimed to have hit the mid 150mph speeds). And
the engine is getting stronger each day as it breaks in more...
Edward
P.S. In case any of you have a problem with some of my writing, I apologise!
I grew up in the UK but have lived in the States longer so am not too
consistent sometimes (i.e. usage of American slang coupled with English
spellings) - please bear with me!
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Aug 28 14:10 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:58:02 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: VSR tidbits
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Some German tuner's supposed to be coming out with their (hopefully
cheaper and equally effective) version of the VSR very soon, haven't heard
anything more re the Brazilian VSR.
According to Aaron (Neuspeed), one of the reasons for the VSR's impressive
performance gains is VW Motorsport's programming of their ECU - the chip has
aggressive timing programmed in the middle rev range, and the rev limiter is
set at 7600-7700 rpm! In comparison, the P-chip extends the rev limit to
7500 rpm from the factory 7000 rpm mark...
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Aug 29 09:11 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:02:16 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Bigger throttle body
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Velocity has started tests on their bigger throttle body prototype.
Initial tooling costs are high, but if the mod can net a gain of 5 hp or
more up top on a stock VR6 without losing more than 2 hp or so at the low
end, they will bring it to market.
GTA has also started research on something similar. Their version will
probably use a butterfly plate that's 4mm larger than the European one. The
main obstacle involves a clean cutting of the brass plate without causing
warping, maybe high-tech tools such as lasers are required! ;-)
Also waiting for ND to get the ELP one in for dyno testing. In addition,
quite a few other tuners are offering less radical solutions like a slight
boring out of the US or Neuspeed throttle body. Including a few people on
the list with a more cost-effective, do-it-yourself approach like our very
own Brian here, I believe...
Edward
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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:58:14 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: *3.1 litre VR6*
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For those of you who are somewhat obsessive about tweaking things and do
not like leaving a well-designed thing alone (i.e. me), looks like the 3.1
litre conversion is becoming more popular with each passing day on the
American continent!
GTA just delivered to a Jetta GLX customer in Mexico a rebuilt engine
with the ABT bigger bore/longer stroke 3.1 kit. This had a ported and
polished head, Abt (Suko) hollow 268 cams with press-fit lobes, Abt
re-programmed ECU, Abt headers. The European throttle body was used, and the
inlet manifold remained stock. Another customer of Louis will be doing a
3.0 litre (Abt crankshaft) conversion soon. Two other people on the east
coast have put down the money for a 3.1 too.
Anyone on the list contemplating going in this direction? Anyone won the
lottery lately? ;o)
Oh, I've heard rumours that Ron's Parts is tinkering with the idea of
popping a 3.1 VR6 into a rabbit. Yes, a rabbit!! Just think of power to
weight ratio!!! My only concern would be how the older chassis would cope
with all this power and how stable/reliable everything would be at 150 mph?!
Interesting concept, though.
Cheers,
Edward
P.S. Hey, I'd better get back to work...I've been spending much more time
than I really should hanging out on this list! It's just been really
educational and fun reading all the posts here on so many diverse topics, you
chaps have so much to offer from mundane everyday maintenance tips to exotic
outrageously priced conversions...I've really enjoyed being part of this
Corrado list/club! Very knowledgeable and wonderfully supportive group of
enthusiasts... I think I've seen less juvenile flaming and personal attacks
here than on all the other message boards. Which is a very good thing for me,
since I tend to get over-excited sometimes with some of the ground-breaking
news and as a result make impulsive statements/claims without verifying them
first! Well, guess I'm just learning, being new to motorcar mechanics and
all of that stuff... :)
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Aug 28 22:04 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:00:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hulda Jowett
Subject: Re: *3.1 litre twin-turbo VR6* costs
In-Reply-To: <950828165759_85475008@mail06.mail.aol.com>
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It's not to much work. Maybe an hour total. It's not hollow, but there
is a dimple. However, the ramp is thick enough to grind quite alot away
without going through. There are roller type bearings in there, but since
I'm not welding, No worries. I took mine apart and painted it so people
would know that it aint stock. You can do this without messing up the
potentiometer by mesuring its resistance with a digital multimeter (
Fluke meter ) so it can be put back to the stock setting. I would like to
dyno it.
Brian 93 VR6>
> Brian, I guess you did the porting job yourself since it didn't cost
> anything...was it a lot of work? I believe that the stock throttle body is
> hollow around that restrictive lip/ramp area, if so, did you have to use
> epoxy or something since there are seals on the bearings that may be
> heat-sensitive (i.e. not weldable)? Any dyno or timing runs after you did
> this? Please excuse any redundant or repeated questions, I seem to recall
> that there were some posts regarding this subject a while back, but I don't
> remember the exact context...
>
> Edward
>
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Aug 30 15:55 PDT 1995
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id SAA05075 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:45:37 -0400
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:45:37 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Preliminary Unofficial Cam Dyno Results
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Darrell (Techtonics) is currently in the midst of his suite of tests on
VR6 performance parts, and here are some preliminary observations:
Schrick 260 - about 12hp gain @ 5500rpm (over stock).
Schrick 268 - unable to set to factory alignment, have to install in
"advanced" or "retarded" position. Will result in a boost at either the
lower end or at the top end.
ABT 268 - nice gain at the bottom, but a loss of 30hp at the top!!!
Something funny going on here...
Again, I would like to stress that these are totally unofficial preliminary
results, I don't have details of the test environment/context, and so can not
vouch for their accuracy. In fact, Darrell would probably not be too pleased
that I've "published" them here as he told me that Techtonics won't have any
results available for public consumption for another couple of weeks (I
didn't find out the above from him).
Just wanted to share the scoop with you and to let Darrell know that we in
the VR6 community support his efforts at obtaining objective measurements for
these mods. Just call the above an unsubstantiated rumour, alright?
Your roving reporter,
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Sep 14 14:35 PDT 1995
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 14:27:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: rich@amcc.com (Ricardo Higgins)
Subject: Re: SLC torque table (was Re: Optimum Shifting Point for Corrado)
In-Reply-To: <199509072056.QAA05536@hamlet.dev.cdx.mot.com>; from
"Art Barabell" at Sep 7, 95 4:56 pm
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>
> In a recent e-mail, a table of torque vs. rpm for various flavors of Corrados
> was reproduced from the archive file "VR6_Power_Upgrades". I don't know about
> the other columns, but the one for a stock SLC seems off. The table shows a
> peak of 197 ft-lbs @ 4500; yet the factory figure is a peak figure of 177
> ft-lbs. I guess we should take heed of the disclaimer which accompanied the
> table "Note that I have no idea on the accuracy (or reliability) of any of
> these measurements."
>
> Arthur Barabell
> '92 Corrado SLC
>
Hey,
I found a neat program that will compute optimum shift points, best launch
RPM. The program even has a cool simulated 1/4 race based on several current
vehicle models. You enter or modify your car specs and away it goes. To compute
shift points it does calculations and you see messages like "wheelspin" flash
across the screen.
If someone wants it I could uuencode it and post it somewhere, or mail it to
someone to put on the webpage.
Ric
'69 912
'72 Ghia
'95 Jetta GLX
This program could be used to figure optimum shift points for both modified and
unmodified Corrados.
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Sep 14 20:23 PDT 1995
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:16:07 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: VR6 *rumours*
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Heard that VW decided against a turbo VR6 after their experience with the
one-off turbo Sharan that Porsche did for them (280bhp) - apparently they
experienced some major overheating probems... However, the forced induction
VR6 built in Florida appears to be running fine, Ron's Parts and Motronix are
plowing ahead with their respective turbo VR6 projects, and ND will be
working on theirs at some future point. Approaches to lowering the
compression ratio range from head spacers to custom pistons to shorter
connecting rods.
I mentioned a while ago about the 24-valve VR6 cylinder head prototype VW
was playing around with, looks like it won't ever go into production due to
cost considerations. Boohoo. Also depressing rumours have been circulating
of the VR6 being eventually phased out and replaced by a VR5...come on, VW,
first you killed the Corrado, and now the VR6??? Hopefully this is only
gossip and not reality...
Bigger displacement VR6s seem to be surfacing everywhere. To mention just
a few, a 3.1 litre GTI is being done in PA with custom titanium connecting
rods ($2300 for just the rods + balancing!) and possibly a Techtonics head:
a Jetta GLX 3.1 was done by GTA in Canada and is now flexing its muscles in
Mexico: Ron's Parts may be selling the really souped-up 3.1 they recently
installed in a Passat GLX as the customer wants to move on to a twin-turbo
3.1 crafted from a fresh block (RPI also popped a VR6 into a *Rabbit*, just
for fun!): AMS has just completed a 3.0 VR6 GTI and will be working on a 3.0
Corrado. Oh, not to forget my own 3.1 being put together by EIP... anyone
heard of any other conversions?
Cheers,
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Sep 18 02:10 PDT 1995
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 04:58:31 -0400
From: UniqueVR6@aol.com
Subject: Re: upgrades (Part 2)
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Hmm, looks like America On-Line's internet gateway's acting up again! I've
posted several messages to the list last week which either never showed up,
or appeared to everyone on the list except for me, or had the body text cut
off...
Anyway, here's the portion that were deleted from my response to Butch's
questions on performance upgrades to his Corrado VR6...yawn, now I can
finally retire to bed...
********************************************
>Anyone in favor of
>those $250 computer chips? If so, which one is best.
I'm currently using the APS (Neuspeed) chip on my 92 VR6. Biggest
difference is the full-throttle response. The speed limiter has also been
removed, and the rev limit raised another 500rpm or so. Expect a gain from 7
to 12 hp, depending on what other mods you have installed. The Neuspeed chip
seems to be the most popular, but Autothority has its loyal following too.
The AMS version is probably one of the best custom programmed ones currently
available, though I don't have any personal experience with it. Dinan,
Superchips which claims an increase of 21 hp (rather optimistic?), and
Star*Chips in the UK also produce performance chips.
>What about a throttle body
I would consider this only after something like the P-Chip and P-Flow.
You may decide $369.95 retail is too big a price to pay for a mere 5 hp or
so of power at the top end (at the possible expense of a small power loss at
the low end), or you may look into boring out the restrictive lip yourself.
Options besides the well-known Neuspeed/European throttle-body include
custom enlarged versions from ELP/ND, Velocity, and European Import...
> Cams...?
For a stock-like idle and minimal impact on streetability and emissions,
the relatively mild Schrick 260 cams are recommended. For even more peak
power (but pushed higher up in the powerband), Schrick or ABT 268. (If you
are racing, Schrick has 276 cams available). Remember, at this point, you are
playing around with $1000+ items...
BTW, the ABTs are made by Sugo and have distinctive hollow shafts which
make them lighter and so theoretically better at very high rpms, but this may
be only a theoretical advantage as we may be talking about 8000+ rpm, the
ABTs are lighter only along the axis/centre of rotation and so have less of
an impact, and are probably not as strong as the Schricks?
>really nice but stock exhaust (I
>noticed several Leistritz stamps throughout). Is there a better one
>available?
>
The stock system is hard to beat as VW really did an outstanding job
there. I've heard the Leistritz Sports muffler advertised by some dealers
are comparable to the factory ones. Avoid some of the cheaper solutions which
replace the rear muffler with a domestic "turbo" version - louder but not
necessarily better! Another approach commonly taken is to install a
straight-through pipe in place of the mid-muffler, or even the front muffler
(resonator).
Autotech and Eurosport advertise their own custom exhaust systems, but I
would personally recommend New Dimension's forthcoming model judging by their
dyno test results. Very impressive. You may look at the Supersprint and ABT
systems too, which should be good but rather pricey...
>I would like to JUMP to 17", but what would that do to the handling? Will
they
>fit? What size tires?
>
I'm going to leave this to my better-informed colleagues as it is a whole
subject matter in itself (also I'm starting to doze off, sorry)... Check the
archives too.
Good luck in your quest for more performance!
Edward
From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Sep 18 01:43 PDT 1995
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